2026-05-10T12:44:00-0400 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻
以下是前美国食品药品监督管理局局长斯科特·戈特利布的采访实录，他目前担任辉瑞公司和联合健康集团的董事，采访于2026年5月10日在《与玛格丽特·布伦南面对全国》节目中播出。
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玛格丽特·布伦南： 欢迎回到《面对全国》。汉坦病毒疫情邮轮的乘客于今天上午抵达西班牙加那利群岛，他们通过小型接驳船被转运上岸，随后接受症状检查，再搭乘疏散航班离开。船上共有近150名乘客，其中17名是美国人，他们将被送往内布拉斯加州的隔离点。目前尚无任何人出现症状。现在我们连线前FDA局长斯科特·戈特利布医生，他同时任职于辉瑞和联合健康集团的董事会。医生，欢迎再次做客。
斯科特·戈特利布医生： 谢谢。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 目前已有3起与此次疫情相关的死亡病例。美国国内有六个州正在监测潜在暴露人群，这些病例均与该邮轮或船上乘客搭乘的航班有关，包括那17名美国乘客。你是否同意美国疾控中心和世界卫生组织的观点，即此次公共卫生风险较低？
斯科特·戈特利布医生： 是的，我同意。我们必须承认，我们对这种病毒仍有许多未知之处。我们过去很少需要应对这类大规模疫情。阿根廷曾出现过两起大规模暴发，但根据那次经验，我们了解到这种病毒通常需要密切接触才会传播。我们还知道，感染者在出现症状前通常不具有传染性，也就是我们所说的前驱期，此时他们开始出现症状发作。从症状出现到病情恶化乃至死亡的过程通常仅为数天。这种病毒传播性极强，因此根据现有信息，传播风险较低。话虽如此，回顾过去的疫情经验，也存在一些极端案例，看似在并非密切接触的人群之间发生了传播。因此我们需要仔细审视过往的这些案例，保持警惕，或许我们对这种病毒的了解还不够全面。我想说的是，对于我们美国国内正在接回的这批乘客来说，传播窗口期即将结束。上次该邮轮上的死亡病例发生在5月2日，该患者的症状出现于4月28日。如果潜伏期约为2至6周，那么他们将在本周达到潜伏期的峰值。所以我认为，再过两周左右，我们就能知晓此次邮轮疫情是否会引发更多后续病例。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 这是一个关键节点。世卫组织明确表示，此次疫情并非新冠疫情的重演，但正如你所知，这引发了一些与疫情期间同样的怀疑论者的质疑，他们当时就对美国政府机构和防疫应对措施提出了质疑。世卫组织称，目前没有研究表明伊维菌素对该病毒有效，但我想听听你如何看待呼吁使用替代疗法以及抵制政府卫生建议的声音？
斯科特·戈特利布医生： 听着，我们将在很长一段时间内反复讨论新冠疫情带来的后果。我认为，目前许多身处公共卫生岗位的人认为，他们的任期和这些职位任命在某种程度上是对新冠疫情应对措施的一次公投。这一点也体现在他们的公开言论中。此次疫情不同于新冠，它不会像新冠病毒那样像大流行病毒一样传播，它的传播效率要低得多。目前尚无针对该病毒的有效治疗方法。伊维菌素显然不是有效的治疗药物。仅从其作用机制来看，它就无法对抗这种病毒。它只能阻止细胞核内的病毒复制，而非细胞质内的。如果这种病毒是在细胞质内复制，那么伊维菌素就完全不起作用。因此我建议人们不要使用该药物。我知道社交媒体上有一些言论建议人们囤积伊维菌素。我们目前没有针对汉坦病毒的有效治疗方法，这也是此次疫情极具威胁性的原因所在。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 确实如此，我们将持续追踪相关情况。你在特朗普政府第一任期内担任FDA局长。现任该职位的人士，也就是马蒂·马卡里博士，曾做客过本节目。他在特朗普和拜登执政期间都对新冠防疫措施提出过尖锐批评。目前有大量报道称，他目前的职位面临被解雇的风险。考虑到FDA的重要性——据我所知，该机构监管着美国五分之一的消费支出——失去其负责人将会造成多大的损害？是否有人能够迅速接任？
斯科特·戈特利布医生： 我暂时想不出合适的人选，有报道称有几位候选人可以临时担任该职位。马蒂是我的朋友，你知道，这是一份非常棘手的工作。正如你所说，它监管着约20%的美国经济，涉及对人们生活至关重要的产品，包括医疗产品、食品和食品安全。因此，FDA做出的决策往往会引发大量争议和担忧。无论谁担任这一职位，都会面临争议，包括我自己。我在任期间做出的决策也曾遭到批评。我认为，FDA持续的动荡已经对该机构造成了损害，不仅是关于马蒂前途的猜测，还有我们看到的该机构人员流失。该机构已经流失了数千名医疗审评员，其中一些是通过“预算削减法案”（DOGE cuts）自愿离职，另一些则是被迫离职，还有一些是主动辞职。该机构出现了大量人员自愿离职的情况。以肿瘤学分部为例，本届政府初期有大约100名医疗审评员，现在只剩下约50名。负责审评白血病和淋巴瘤药物的血液学小组原本有21名医疗审评员，现在只剩6名。他们整个乳腺癌审评团队都被解散了。因此该机构流失了大量人员。我们看到政治任命人员接管了原本应由职业人士担任的领导职位，掌管医疗产品中心、药品中心和生物制品中心。所以我认为，这些因素累积起来已经对该机构造成了冲击，而我们上周五看到的这些持续猜测，我认为只会让情况进一步恶化。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 你列举的这些数据令人震惊。我想问问你关于该机构现任领导层的情况。卫生与公众服务部部长罗伯特·F·肯尼迪近日谈到了美国国内抗抑郁药物的使用情况。近17%的美国人在服用抗抑郁药，他表示这类药物存在过度处方的问题，并将自己戒除海洛因的戒断经历与一名家庭成员停用SSRIs类抗抑郁药的经历进行了对比。我们来听一下他的发言。
[开始录音]
美国卫生与公众服务部部长罗伯特·F·肯尼迪： 我亲眼目睹一名家庭成员在服用这类药物数年后停药，她当时出现了自杀倾向。几乎每天都是如此。她每天早上醒来都会说，我不想活了。她还说：“我能撑下来唯一的原因就是你们，为了这个家。”
[结束录音]
玛格丽特·布伦南： 他后来补充说，他并不是建议人们在服用这类药物时直接停药。但你如何看待他将抗抑郁药描述为具有风险的言论？
斯科特·戈特利布医生： 听着，这类药物大多在基层医疗环境中开具。就像在该环境中开具的任何药物一样，我相信确实存在一些边缘性的处方情况，也就是个别孤立的不合理处方情况。但对于大多数服用这类药物的美国人来说，它们非常重要，在某些情况下甚至可以挽救生命。我建议所有根据部长的言论考虑停药的人，务必咨询他们的医生。患者需要一段时间来逐步减量停药。如果他们愿意，完全可以成功停药，并且可以找到其他有效的心理健康治疗方案。但任何人都不应在没有医疗专业人员指导的情况下直接停药。我担心部长的言论会像他之前关于对乙酰氨基酚的言论一样，打击人们对这类药物的合理使用。此前他关于孕期使用对乙酰氨基酚的言论，导致许多女性即使在需要镇痛和退热的合适情况下也不再使用该药物，而这对某些孕妇来说可能至关重要。我们看到当时有很多女性放弃了这类药物的使用，包括合理的使用。我担心这里也会出现同样的情况。很明显，部长希望降低抗抑郁药的处方量，他也试图通过监管措施来实现这一目标。因此这确实令人担忧。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 好的，戈特利布医生，我们今天的节目就要到此为止了。我希望以后能请你回来谈谈电子烟的话题，但由于时间限制，今天只能先到这里。非常感谢你的分析。我们稍后很快回来。
Transcript: Scott Gottlieb on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” May 10, 2026
2026-05-10T12:44:00-0400 / CBS News
The following is the transcript of the interview with former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, who is on the boards of Pfizer and UnitedHealthCare, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on May 10, 2026.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to Face The Nation. Passengers from the Hantavirus stricken cruise ship arrived this morning in Spain’s Canary Islands, where they were ferried onto land by small launch boats, then checked for symptoms before being flown on evacuation flights. Close to 150 people on-board the ship, and among them, 17 of them Americans. They’re going to be flown to a quarantine unit in Nebraska. No one so far is showing symptoms. For more now we turn to former FDA commissioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He also serves on the boards of Pfizer and United Healthcare. Welcome back, doctor.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So there have been three deaths linked to the outbreak. Here in the US, there are six states monitoring potential exposure, all either linked to the ship itself or flights of people who have been on the ship, and then those 17 Americans. Do you agree with the CDC and the World Health Organization that the risk to public health is low?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Yeah, I do agree with that. We have to concede that there’s still things we don’t know about this virus. We haven’t had to grapple with many outbreaks in the past. There’s been two large outbreaks in Argentina, but based on that experience, what we know is that typically for transmission, you have to have close contact. We also know that people typically aren’t contagious unless they’re showing signs of the infection itself, in what we call the prodromal phase, where they start to have an onset of symptoms. And the progression from that onset of symptoms to severe disease, and in these cases, death, is typically just days. This is a very aggressive virus, and so based on what we know, the transmission risk is low. Now, that said, when you look back at the past experience, there are these outlier cases where there appears to have been transmission among people who weren’t perceived to be in close contact. And so there are these cases that we need to look at closely from the past experience and just be wary that, perhaps there’s things we don’t know fully about this virus. I will say that we are nearing the end of the transmission window for the people who are being repatriated here in the US. And so, it looks to me like the last death on that cruise ship was May 2. That patient had an onset of symptoms on April 28. If you believe that the incubation period is about two to six weeks, they’ll be at the peak of that incubation cycle, some point this week. So I think we’re about two weeks away from knowing whether or not there will be additional cases that come from that initial outbreak on the cruise ship.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So a key moment here, I mean, the WHO said it’s very clear this is not COVID all over again, but as you know, it has ignited some of the very same skeptics who during the pandemic, really questioned our government institutions and the response. The WHO has said, there is no research that ivermectin is an effective treatment for the virus, but I’m wondering what you make of these calls for alternative treatments and resistance of government health advice?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Look, I think we’re going to be relitigating the consequences of COVID for a long time. And I think a lot of people who are in public health positions right now believe that their tenure and their appointment to these positions is a referendum on COVID, in some respects. And so that echoes through their public comments. This is not COVID. It’s not going to spread like a pandemic virus like COVID did, like a Coronavirus did. It spreads far less efficiently. There aren’t any treatments, successful treatments for this virus. Ivermectin certainly isn’t an effective treatment. Just by virtue of its mechanism, it doesn’t work against this virus. It prevents viral replication in the nucleus, not the cytoplasm. If this virus replicates, it’s just not going to work. So I would encourage people not to use that. I know that there’s been some things on social media suggesting that people should stockpile ivermectin. We don’t have an effective treatment for Hantavirus, and that- that’s what makes this very menacing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well indeed, and we’re going to continue to track that. You served in the first Trump administration as his FDA commissioner in the first term. The person in that job now has been a guest on this program, Dr. Marty Makary. He was a vocal critic of COVID response during Trump and Biden. There’s a lot of reporting right now that his current position- that he’s at risk of losing his job. Given how important the FDA is, they regulate- I saw one-fifth of consumer spending in this country- how damaging would it be to lose its leader? And is there someone who could step in quickly?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: No one obvious to me, and there’s been some reporting about different candidates that could work on an interim basis there. Marty’s a friend, you know, I think that that’s a very difficult job. It, as you said, regulates about 20% of the U.S. economy, products that are very important to people’s lives, medical products, food, food safety. And so there- there’s a lot of debate and consternation about decisions that get made at FDA. And so it’s been a controversial position for whoever has held that job, including me. You know, I got criticized for decisions that I made in that position as well. I think the continued upheaval at FDA has been detrimental to the agency, not just the speculation about Marty’s fate, but also the departures that we’ve seen from the agency. The agency’s lost thousands of medical reviewers, some voluntary through- the through the DOGE cuts, or some forced through the DOGE cuts, involuntary means, some voluntary. There’s been a lot of voluntary departures from the agency. If you look at the oncology division, they had a starting strength of about 100 medical reviewers at the beginning of this administration. They’re down to about 50. The hematological group that reviews drugs for leukemia and lymphoma had 21 medical reviewers, and it’s down to six. They lost an entire breast cancer review team. So there’s been a lot of departures from the agency. You’ve seen political appointees take over what are typically career leadership positions, running the medical product centers, the drug center and the biologics center. So, I think cumulatively, that’s taken a toll on the agency, and this continued speculation that we saw on Friday, I think is just going to be another step downward.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Those are stunning numbers to hear you rattle off there. I want to ask you about some of current leadership there. Secretary Kennedy was speaking about the use of antidepressants in this country. Almost 17% of Americans use them. He says they’re overprescribed, and he compared his experience of heroin withdrawal to a family member’s experience getting off antidepressants known as SSRIs. Take a listen.
[START SOUND ON TAPE]
HHS SECRETARY ROBERT F KENNEDY: I watched a family member get off of them after a couple of years on them, and she was suicidal. Literally every day. She woke up every morning and said, I don’t want to live. And she said, “The only reason I’m staying alive is for you guys, for the family.”
[END SOUND ON TAPE]
MARGARET BRENNAN: He later said that he was not telling people to stop if they’re taking that medication. But what do you make of his description of anti-depressants as risky?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Look, these are prescribed in a primary care setting. And like any drug that’s prescribed in that setting, I’m sure there’s some marginal prescribing, you know, isolated marginal prescribing. But for most Americans who take these drugs, they’re very important, and in some cases, life-saving. And I would encourage everyone who is thinking about potentially stopping these medications based on the secretary’s comments, to consult their doctor. There is a period of time that patients need to be weaned off these drugs. They can be successfully weaned off these drugs if they want to be and there’s alternatives that could be effective for their mental health. But nobody should just stop these drugs outright without being under the consultation of a medical provider. I worry that the secretary’s comments is going to discourage legitimate use of these drugs in the same way that his comments around Tylenol discouraged use of Tylenol in the setting of pregnancy, where it could be very important for certain pregnant women who need pain relief and fever relief in that setting. And we saw a lot of women move away from those drugs, use of those drugs, even appropriate use of those drugs, based on the Secretary’s comments about that. I worry about the same thing here. It’s clear that the Secretary wants to put downward pressure on the prescribing. He tried to implement regulatory steps to do that as well. And so it is concerning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, Dr. Gottlieb, we’re going to have to leave it there. I want to have you back to talk about vaping one of these days, but I’m going to have to leave it there due to time constraints. Thank you so much for your analysis. We’ll be back in a moment.
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