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采访实录：退役上将弗兰克·麦肯齐做客《玛格丽特·布伦南面对全国》节目 2026年4月5日
2026-04-05T12:12:00-0400 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻
以下是前美国中央司令部司令、退役上将弗兰克·麦肯齐的完整采访实录，本次采访于2026年4月5日在《玛格丽特·布伦南面对全国》节目播出，本周由白宫高级政治记者埃德·奥基夫主持。
埃德·奥基夫： 我们现在邀请到了美国前中央司令部司令、退役上将弗兰克·麦肯齐。将军，复活节快乐。
弗兰克·麦肯齐上将： 也祝你复活节快乐，埃德。
埃德·奥基夫： 搜寻失踪的武器系统军官仅用了不到48小时。他们乘坐的飞机在伊朗西南部一处偏远多山地区坠毁后，这名武器系统军官一直躲在一处山缝里。据一名高级政府官员透露，你对此次搜救行动的评价如何？
弗兰克·麦肯齐上将： 埃德，我认为我们能从中汲取两点经验。首先，联合部队表现卓越，我们能够快速行动，搜寻坠毁的机组人员。我们一直在为此进行无休止的训练。每次我们派遣机组人员前往敌方领土时，我们都会制定详细周密的营救计划，这是我们作为美国军人的基本职责。因此，该计划迅速启动，我认为执行得相当有效。和往常一样，地面上有人可能受伤，他们需要找到一个藏身之处，直到我们能够抵达他们身边。这一切都进展得非常顺利。当然，我们在此次任务中确实损失了几架飞机，但我想说的是，制造一架飞机需要一年时间，而建立起“不丢下任何一人”的军事传统则需要200年。在这种情况下，无论如何都要优先保全机组人员。其次，我认为这对伊朗来说是一个沉重的教训。首先，他们未能找到失踪的机组人员。其次，众所周知，他们曾广泛呼吁民众提供线索、悬赏通缉，要求民众提供各种相关情报，但似乎并未取得成功。我认为这或许是民众不满情绪的一种体现，我不确定，但如果德黑兰的高级领导层今天得知此事，肯定不会开心。
埃德·奥基夫： 没错，你知道伊朗伊斯兰革命卫队现在声称对阿联酋、科威特和巴林的石化厂袭击负责。他们警告称，如果伊朗境内的平民目标再次遭到袭击，针对美国经济利益的袭击将会升级。伊朗及其代理人目前是否仍有能力造成严重破坏？
弗兰克·麦肯齐上将： 他们有能力造成破坏，但无法产生大规模影响。所谓大规模影响，我指的是发射数十枚甚至上百枚火箭弹、导弹或无人机。我认为，自这场冲突开始以来，他们的这种能力一直在持续削弱。坦率地说，在这场行动开展约30天后，如果你是中央司令部的指挥官，你应该对目前的局势感到相当满意。事实上，埃德，当我担任中央司令部司令时，如果有人告诉我30天后能达到这样的局势，我会认为这过于乐观了。因此，我们取得了良好的效果，我们的行动还将继续。他们发动导弹和火箭弹袭击的难度会越来越大。我们可能需要一段时间才能完全消除威胁，我认为前方仍有一段路要走，但所有人都清楚这一点。但我认为我们正走在正确的轨道上，这场行动进展非常顺利，我相信行动节奏每天都会加快。
埃德·奥基夫： 回到你刚才提到的一点，总统今天早上在接受福克斯新闻采访时发表了一番耐人寻味的言论，首次透露美国今年早些时候向居住在伊拉克北部、伊朗北部的库尔德人运送了“大量枪支”，供抗议者使用。他明确表示希望他们使用这些武器，并暗示他派遣武器是为了让伊朗人民在周三晚发动起义。不过，在他随后的重要演讲中，他澄清了这场战争的性质，称“这场运动并非旨在政权更迭”。但如果美国确实在向抗议者提供武器，这可能释放出什么信号？
弗兰克·麦肯齐上将： 我认为，我们应该尽一切可能向该政权施压。向库尔德人提供武器当然会增加对伊朗政权的压力。从历史中我们可以看到，伊朗领导层在面临生存压力时会做出反应。即使我们的最终目标不是政权更迭，向库尔德人提供武器也会让我们离目标更近一步。通过向他们施加难以承受的压力，最终会迫使德黑兰政权达成符合我们利益的协议，而这一切都是这些行动的必然结果。我认为所有这些举措加在一起就能达到这个目的。
埃德·奥基夫： 你上周表示，白宫的一项成功是霍尔木兹海峡重新开放，但这条至关重要的航道实际上仍然处于被封锁状态。总统在复活节早上使用了一些，可以说是，颇具色彩的语言，再次威胁伊朗，要求其重新开放海峡。如果美国在未来几天发动军事行动以开放海峡，那么从军事角度来看，需要采取哪些步骤？
弗兰克·麦肯齐上将： 首先，我想说，我们有能力开放海峡。如果我们选择这么做，你现在看到的其实是此类行动前期步骤的雏形。你需要削弱伊朗向海峡内的军舰发射短程火箭弹和导弹的能力，你需要摧毁他们的快速攻击艇——也就是那些被称为“雪茄艇”的大型大功率舷外发动机快艇，它们可以高速冲向船队，直接造成破坏。我们正在打击所有这些船只，而攻击机、攻击直升机和其他低速低空平台在这方面非常有效。我们目前正在逐步清除这些威胁。与此同时，我们正在努力清除伊朗的水雷储备。水雷非常危险，战争开始时他们拥有数千枚水雷，毫无疑问，我们已经（内容未听清）了他们的水雷储备。当然，不需要太多水雷就能严重阻碍全球航运。因此，所有这些行动都在进行中，你需要将水雷威胁降至最低，然后才能派遣军舰前往海峡进行实际的“试水”行动。我不知道库珀海军上将在这方面的决策过程会是怎样，但我认为我们离实现这些目标已经不远了。
埃德·奥基夫： 仅凭空中和海军行动就能重新开放海峡吗？还是说你需要地面部队？
弗兰克·麦肯齐上将： 我认为仅凭空中和海军行动就能开放海峡，地面部队的使用可能仅限于突袭行动。请记住，突袭是指发动袭击后按计划撤退，不会长期驻扎。唯一的例外可能是哈尔克岛。我知道总统已经提到过这个岛，我认为它在伊朗文化中具有独特的地位，原因有二：第一，如果你占领该岛，就等于占领了伊朗领土；第二，它是伊朗所有石油出口的关键通道。占领该岛可以切断伊朗的石油出口，对伊朗经济造成严重打击，同时还可以通过谈判过程将其归还。此外，你不会因为摧毁该基础设施而永久性损害全球经济。因此，我认为哈尔克岛是一个非常有利可图的目标。我确信我们现在正在认真研究这个目标，但我不知道我们是否会选择发动进攻。
埃德·奥基夫： 最后30秒左右，将军，总结一下。总统说只需要两到三周就能完成任务？你同意这个说法吗？还是说需要更长时间？
弗兰克·麦肯齐上将： 你知道，我总是不愿意为这类军事行动设定时间框架，但我想说，伊朗领导人最好听听特朗普总统的话，他说会打击伊朗，因为他已经证明了他愿意这么做。因此，这是我从他最近的声明以及这场战争至今的实际行动中得出的教训。如果总统说我们要做某事，我们很可能就会去做。伊朗领导层现在最好注意到这一点。
埃德·奥基夫： 好的，今天的采访就到这里。麦肯齐将军，再次祝你复活节快乐。感谢你今天早上抽出时间接受我们的采访，我们深表感谢。
Transcript: Retired Gen. Frank McKenzie on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” April 5, 2026
2026-04-05T12:12:00-0400 / CBS News
The following is the full transcript of an interview with retired Gen. Frank McKenzie, former commander of U.S. Central Command, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on April 5, 2026, moderated this week by senior White House and political correspondent Ed O’Keefe.
ED O’KEEFE: We’re joined now by the former head of U.S. Central Command, retired General Frank McKenzie. General, Happy Easter.
GEN. FRANK MCKENZIE: And the same to you, Ed.
ED O’KEEFE: So it took just under 48 hours to find the missing weapons systems officer. After the jet they were in went down in a remote and mountainous area of southwestern Iran, the weapons officer was hiding in a mountainous crevice. We’re told by a senior administration official, what’s your assessment of how the search and rescue operation went?
GEN. MCKENZIE: So I think I’d draw two lessons from it, Ed. First of all, the excellence of the joint force, our ability to rapidly pivot, to look for a downed air crewman. We train for this endlessly. It’s a part of every time we send air crew over enemy territory, we have detailed, elaborate plans to go get them. It’s a very basic part of who we are as American fighting men and women. So that plan swung into action. I think it was executed pretty effectively. As always, you’ve got somebody on the ground, may be injured. They got to get to a position where they can hide until you can get to them. All that seemed to work out very well. And you know, we did, in fact, lose a couple of aircraft in that in that mission. But I would just tell you, it takes a year to build an aircraft. It takes 200 years to build a military tradition where you don’t leave anybody behind. You take the aircraft trade any day in a situation like this. The other lesson, I think, is a hard lesson for Iran. First of all, they were not able to find the missing air crewman. Second, you know, they put out a broad appeal to their people to turn him in reward, asking for all kinds of leads, that does not appear to have been successful. And that would- I think that’s maybe a sign of disaffection, don’t know, but you can’t, you can’t be happy with that if you’re a senior leader in Tehran this morning.
ED O’KEEFE: Yeah, you know Iran’s Revolutionary Guards now claiming responsibility for attacks on petrochemical plants in the UAE, Kuwait and Bahrain. They warn its attacks against U.S. economic interests will intensify if attacks on civilian targets in Iran are repeated, does Iran and its proxies retain the capacity to inflict serious damage at this point?
GEN. MCKENZIE: They have the ability to inflict damage. They do not have the ability to gain mass effects. And by mass effects, I mean firing many, many dozens of rockets, missiles or drones. I think that capability has been eroded steadily since this campaign began. And frankly, at about plus 30 days into this campaign, I think if you’re at Central Command, you’ve got to be reasonably satisfied with where you are right now. In fact, Ed, when I was the CENTCOM Commander, if you had given me this situation at plus 30 days, I would have rejected it as being too optimistic by far. So we’ve had good effect. Our effects are going to continue. It’s going to be increasingly harder for them to launch missiles and rockets. We may not get to zero for a while, and I think there’s still some time ahead, but everyone realizes that. But I think we’re on track here. This campaign is moving very effectively, and I believe the pace will pick up every day.
ED O’KEEFE: To your earlier point, the president said something interesting to Fox News this morning, revealing for the first time that the U.S., earlier this year had sent a quote, lot of guns to the Kurds, who live in northern Iraq, northern Iran for use by protesters. So he wanted them to use these weapons. And said, you know, inferring now that he was sending weapons to have the Iranian people rise up on Wednesday night, though, in his big speech, clarifying what the war is all about, he said, This campaign is not about regime change, but if they are now, in fact, arming protesters. What might that signal?
GEN. MCKENZIE: Well, I think you want to put pressure on this regime in every way that you can. Arming Kurds certainly increases pressure on the Iranian regime. We know from history that leadership in Iran responds when existential pressure is applied to the regime. Arming the Kurds moves you a step closer toward that even if your ultimate aim is not regime change, getting the regime and Tehran to a place where they’ll make a deal that’s to our liking, is going to be the inevitable by product of intolerable pressure that’s placed over- on them. And I think all of these add together to do that.
ED O’KEEFE: You said last week, a success for the White House is that the Strait of Hormuz reopens, but that vital passageway, of course, remains effectively choked off. The president this Easter morning, used some, shall we say, colorful language, to threaten Iran again to reopen the strait, if the U.S. launches its own military operation in the coming days to open the strait, what’s it going to take militarily to do that?
GEN. MCKENZIE: Well, let me, let me say, first of all, we do have the ability to open the strait. Should we choose to do it in what you’re seeing now are the- what I would call the precursor of the initial steps in such a campaign you want to reduce Iran’s ability to fire short range rockets and missiles into the strait against warships. You want to take out their fast attack craft. Think of them as cigarette boats, large, powerful outboard engined boats that can race out and get among ships and cause direct damage that way. What we’re doing is we’re going after all those vessels. And that’s where a 10s attack aircraft, attack helicopters and other slow moving, low altitude platforms are so very effective. So we’re in the process of removing those right now. At the same time, we’re working to get rid of Iran’s mine stockpile. The mines are very dangerous. They had thousands when the war began. I have no doubt we significantly (UNINTELLIGIBLE) them, now. Of course, it doesn’t take many mines to cause a significant blockage to world shipping. So all of that is underway right now, and you want to reduce those to a low level before you put your warships up there to actually sort of test the waters in that strait. I have no idea what Admiral Cooper’s decision making process is going to be for that, but I think we’re well on the way to achieving those goals.
ED O’KEEFE: Can the strait be reopened with an air and naval campaign or are you going to need ground troops?
GEN. MCKENZIE: I think it could be opened with an air and naval campaign, and the use of ground troops would probably be along the line of raids. And remember, a raid is an attack with a planned withdrawal, where you don’t plan to stay. The one exception might be Kharg Island. I know the president has talked about it. I think it has a unique place in Iranian culture, because of one thing, if you seize it, you’re holding Iranian soil. Secondly, it is the critical mode through which all their oil supplies pass. By seizing it, you have the opportunity to cut that off, inflicting grievous damage on the Iranian economy, and yet with the opportunity, perhaps, to return it as part of a negotiation process. Further, you don’t permanently damage the global economy by destroying the infrastructure. So I think Kharg Island is a very lucrative target. I’m sure we’re looking at it hard right now. I have no idea if we’re going to choose to go up there.
ED O’KEEFE: In our last 30 seconds or so, here, General, bottom line this. The president says two to three weeks is all that it’s going to take? Would you agree with that? Or is it going to take longer?
GEN. MCKENZIE: You know, I always hesitate to put time on a- to put a timeline on a military operation like this, but I would say the Iranians would be very well served to listen to President Trump when he says he’s going to hit him because he’s pro- he’s proven that he’s willing to do that. So that’s the lesson I would learn from from his most recent pronouncement, and from actually what we’ve done in the war to this day, if the president says we’re going to do something, we’re probably going to do it. And it probably is good time for the Iranian leadership to take note of that fact.
ED O’KEEFE: All right, we’ll leave it there. General McKenzie, happy Easter again. Thank you for spending some time with us this morning. We appreciate it.