完整文字实录：辛迪·麦凯恩做客《与玛格丽特·布伦南面对面》节目，2026年5月31日
2026-05-31T06:32:00-0400 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻
以下是与联合国世界粮食计划署执行主任辛迪·麦凯恩的完整采访实录，部分内容已于2026年5月31日在《与玛格丽特·布伦南面对面》节目中播出。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 接下来我们连线在罗马的联合国世界粮食计划署执行主任辛迪·麦凯恩。欢迎回到《面对面》节目。
联合国世界粮食计划署执行主任 辛迪·麦凯恩： 谢谢。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 执行主任，您的工作任务极为繁重——数据显示，亟需粮食和生计援助的人数已创下历史新高。而2026年才过去五个月。我们当前的局势走向如何？
麦凯恩： 显然，当前形势并不乐观。首先，粮食不安全人口数量庞大。我们大规模供粮的能力也不容乐观，因为今年我们仅收到了所需资金的一半，无法覆盖当前计划援助的人口数量。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 所需资金仅到账一半，这是因为美国削减了援助，还是全球范围内对粮食援助的投入都出现了退缩？
麦凯恩： 两者皆是，既有美国的因素，也有全球援助投入的整体缩减。这绝非某一个国家的问题，但整体来看，所有国家都存在这种情况。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 该如何解释这一现象？
麦凯恩： 一些国家开始将目光转向国内，其民众也要求减少对外援助资金，增加国内事务投入。我完全理解这一点，但我们当前面临的不仅是粮食危机，还将面临更多饥荒——目前我们已经经历了两场饥荒，这是前所未有的。如果再新增两场饥荒，局势可想而知。因此，我们确实需要各国、私营部门以及企业等各方挺身而出。目前确实有部分主体已经行动起来，我们与私营部门和企业的合作比以往更多，但要解决这一问题，仍需要我们所有人共同努力。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 我稍后会再回到这个话题，不过先来谈谈当前的援助需求点。刚果（金）正在应对埃博拉疫情紧急情况，这个国家本就处境艰难，据我了解，当地已有约2700万人口面临粮食不安全问题。我知道美国国务院承诺会提供一些援助，但像你们这样的应急救援人员在当地的实际情况如何？
麦凯恩： 显然，我们是当地应急救援的主力之一。正如你所知，世界卫生组织、我们世界粮食计划署以及其他多家非政府组织都在当地开展工作。局势并不乐观，疫情正在大规模扩散，目前我们确实无法统计出受影响的总人数。可以说，疫情正呈蔓延之势。我们当前需要做的不仅是进入灾区，我们负责物流协调、运送物资和人员，仅在该地区我们开展的工作就远不止这些，但应对这一疫情需要全社会付出切实的努力。这是一种非常致命的病毒。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 你说埃博拉疫情正在蔓延。
麦凯恩： 是的。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 那么，你们能否保障一线工作人员的安全？
麦凯恩： 我们的工作人员仍在当地开展工作，但我目前的一项重点工作，也是我们今日召开会议的重要原因之一，就是保障我们自身人员的安全，履行应尽的责任。当前当地没有足够的防疫设施来应对这种情况，因此我们正在组建专门的工作组和团队，确保我们以及所有世界粮食计划署人员的安全。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 你担任执行主任以来，苏丹爆发了冲突，这无疑占用了您大量的精力。联合国称这是全球最严重的人道主义危机。目前局势是否出现了进展？
麦凯恩： 我们确实看到了一丝进展，请注意，只是微乎其微的进展，在达尔富尔地区我们得以将更多人员部署到苏丹境内，而非仅从乍得境内开展行动。但局势依然极为严峻，任何一天都可能有派系发动袭击，完全阻断我们的运输路线，无法运送任何粮食。不过，我始终坚信这一问题最终会得到解决。更重要的是，我相信我们所服务的民众的善意，他们总会设法挺过难关。同时也要记住，世界各地的人们确实在关心他们。我在苏丹亲眼所见，那里的民众曾一度看不到任何希望，但人们并没有放弃他们，我每次到访都会重申这一点。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 你在任期间，全球多地爆发冲突，中东局势始终是重大挑战。据我了解，你们在伊朗境内仍有一些援助行动。众所周知，当地没有自由媒体可以如实记录局势发展。你能介绍一下当地平民的处境吗？
麦凯恩： 正如你所言，我们在当地的团队规模非常小，但我们确实掌握了一些来自当地的情报，因为我们不仅有团队在当地开展工作，还负责保护他们的安全。当地局势不容乐观。霍尔木兹海峡被封锁，双方在沿线地区不断发生袭击，当地民众不仅会面临粮食不安全问题，还会出现饥荒。现在是时候结束这一切，确保霍尔木兹海峡重新开放，因为这一局势影响了所有人。即使海峡重新开放，我们也需要数月时间才能恢复正常运营。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 需要数月才能恢复正常？为什么？是因为运粮船只被困，还是因为食品价格上涨？具体原因是什么？
麦凯恩： 价格、供应和运输都受到了影响。举个例子，我们在阿富汗开展工作，以往通常只需三周左右就能将粮食运抵目的地，现在却需要近三个月。在此期间，妇女和儿童——永远是最先受到冲击的群体——正在挨饿。所有受影响地区都是如此。谈到化肥、种子和其他相关物资，它们的运输也受到了干扰，而这些物资本可以帮助缓解饥荒。这确实是一个严重的问题。我们非常希望相关和平谈判能够顺利推进，霍尔木兹海峡能够早日开放。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 除伊朗之外，以色列在黎巴嫩加大了针对真主党的军事行动，当地难民数量众多。在加沙地带，停火协议不断遭到破坏，停火宣布以来已有数百名巴勒斯坦人丧生。哈马斯等武装组织并未如承诺那样解除武装，以色列军队仍在当地。从更宏观的角度来看，回顾过去几年中东地区遭受的破坏，你会如何向美国民众解释这一局势的长期影响？
麦凯恩： 坦率地说，长期影响并不乐观。加沙地带在停火协议生效后，我们曾一度大规模恢复了粮食运输，缓解了当地的饥荒问题，但现在情况又回到了原点。我们无法再大规模运送物资，当地仍不断发生爆炸和冲突。我们面临的不仅是严峻的局势，还可能会毁掉一代人的童年。在所有存在人道主义危机的国家——黎巴嫩、加沙、叙利亚、苏丹，还有我去过的乌克兰——能否大规模进入灾区开展援助、确保人道主义工作者不会成为袭击目标、尊重人道主义法律，这些都是最为关键的问题，但目前这些都未能得到保障。如今，作为一名援助工作者，处境极为危险。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 你所说的“毁掉一代人的童年”具体指什么？
麦凯恩： 当孩子们无法获得足够的食物，或者食物缺乏足够的营养，再加上学校停课、没有像样的住房、清洁饮用水和药品等基本物资，这对儿童来说无疑是一场灾难。作为一名母亲，同时也是六个孩子的祖母，我总是从母亲的视角来看待这些问题。作为父母，你会不惜一切代价为孩子提供食物，但在许多地区，连这一点都无法实现，这着实令人担忧，局势也极为绝望。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 我曾听你说过“先喂饱他们，再谈后续对抗”，你将粮食援助与国家安全和极端化问题直接联系在了一起。
麦凯恩： 没错，你说得完全正确。我们确实认为这两者息息相关。当饥饿的人们无法获得足够的食物和营养时，他们会转向极端组织，因为极端组织会向他们提供食物。如果你设身处地想一想，当一个人为了养活家人而走投无路时，很难拒绝这样的诱惑。而由此产生的结果是，全球各地的极端派系势力正在不断壮大。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 我想回到你刚才提到的援助工作者话题。根据联合国的数据，过去三年里已有超过1000名援助工作者遇害。你一直在呼吁全球各国领导人加强人道主义法律的执行力度，你说过从事这一领域的工作从未像现在这样艰难。你认为这背后的原因是什么？是冲突数量不断增加，还是人们不再尊重国际法？
麦凯恩： 老实说，我认为这是多种因素共同作用的结果。各方都不再顾及人道主义原则，派系之间也毫不顾忌。我们无法大规模进入灾区开展工作，这也是我们之前讨论过的问题。归根结底，冲突是最大的根源。当然，气候变化和极端天气也带来了诸多问题，但所有问题中最核心的还是冲突。只有实现停火、确保援助人员能够完全不受阻碍地进入灾区，最重要的是全面尊重人道主义法律和援助工作者，这一切才能得到改善，但目前这些都完全没有实现。正如你所知，就在上周，我们的一支运输车队遭到袭击，还有一座仓库被炸毁，这两起事件都发生在乌克兰。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 我看到了相关报道，一辆卡车被无人机击中，一座仓库被俄罗斯用导弹炸毁。
麦凯恩： 没错，是导弹袭击。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 这显然是有预谋的袭击。如果换做以往，美国一定会公开强烈谴责，但我并没有听到这样的表态。
麦凯恩： 我仍在期待美国方面的回应。我必须相信美国民众的善意，希望他们能够站出来维护正义，帮助那些无力自救的人们。不过与此同时，我们也在尽最大努力开展工作。我们的仓库和卡车都有明显的世界粮食计划署标识，任何人都能看出这是我们的物资和车辆。所以你说得没错，我们认为这是有针对性的袭击。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 目前我们还不清楚俄罗斯此举会面临何种后果。
麦凯恩： 确实如此。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 我之前读到过你的一段发言，想再回头聊聊这个话题，我认为这是一个非常重要的表态。你最近在被问及保守派运动时曾表示，在保守派阵营中，援助已经变成了一个“肮脏的词汇”，人道主义工作也被视为“无用之举”。你一生都属于保守派，看到这种趋势发展下去，一定很难接受。你认为这背后的原因是什么？你认为这种情况只是暂时的吗？
麦凯恩： 我必须说明，当时说出那些话很大程度上是出于 frustration（沮丧）情绪。我相信美国国内有许许多多善良的民众愿意为这项事业伸出援手，愿意为各类人道主义事务贡献力量，但我们需要更多人参与进来，也需要不仅仅是美国，全球其他国家也能挺身而出，提供帮助。我们无法独自完成这项任务，大家都知道，美国是我们最大的捐助国，我们为此感到自豪。但我们需要所有国家都参与进来。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 但你认为中国、俄罗斯或者欧洲强国并没有加大援助力度？
麦凯恩： 确实如此，但我依然坚信人性本善，也希望有一天我能“失业”——不再需要做这份工作。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 不过，美国已经改变了对外援助政策。特朗普政府提出了“贸易而非援助”的口号，声称他们将通过对外援助更高效、更有效地提供支持。从你开展工作的实际情况来看，美国国际开发署（USAID）的职能被削弱是否已经产生了实际影响？
麦凯恩： 确实产生了影响。美国国际开发署曾是我们各项工作中不可或缺的一部分，我们在一定程度上也依赖他们的支持。我多么希望我们还能像以前一样依靠USAID，但这是本届政府的选择，我们只能顺势而为。不过，我仍希望未来能够恢复部分我们曾拥有的软实力资源。众所周知，这至少是美国对外援助中非常重要的一部分，但我并不是在批评本届政府的任何成员，我只是在说，我们亟需各方的帮助。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 本届政府反驳了所有相关批评，称让美国纳税人独自承担照顾全球所有人的负担有失公允。那么——
麦凯恩： 我并不反对这一点。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 没错，但如果美国划定了这样的界限，为什么其他国家没有更多地站出来？是因为他们对联合国等国际机构失去了信心，还是他们认为帮助你所说的那些可能威胁全球安全的民众不符合本国利益？
麦凯恩： 我认为这几方面因素都有。听着，在我刚接手世界粮食计划署工作时，我就知道我们需要精简机构，缩减规模，在预算范围内开展工作，而我们也确实做到了这一点，现在我们就是这样运营的。每个组织都可以做得更好，都需要精简机构。这是很正常的事情。曾几何时，联合国机构和我们合作的相关实体资金充裕，但现在情况已经不同了。民众有权质疑资金的使用方式，我完全认同这一点。因此，机构精简、变得更加灵活高效、更好地利用人工智能和技术手段，所有这些都能让我们的工作做得更好、更高效。所以，美国民众乃至其他国家的民众都有权提出质疑，我也理解这一点。我们的责任就是确保我们的工作方向完全正确，也就是将最多的粮食、最便捷的援助送到那些无力自救的民众手中。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 你将在未来几天内卸任这一职务。你拥有麦凯恩家族的声望、影响力和领导能力，你可以前往国会山游说共和党议员，帮助克服我们之前讨论过的援助抵触情绪。在你卸任后，谁能接任这一职位？你对继任者有什么建议，帮助他们向美国民众论证，帮助有需要的人符合美国的国家安全利益？
麦凯恩： 首先，我会同时与两党人士沟通，因为在我看来，粮食安全是无党派议题。任何愿意与我探讨粮食安全问题的人，我都会与之交流。我希望无论谁接任这一职位，都能发自内心地投身这项事业。在世界粮食计划署，我们始终坚持将所有资源优先投入一线，交给我们的前线工作人员和服务对象，而非留在总部。这项工作必须下沉到基层。我希望继任者能够秉持初心，深刻理解我们工作的本质和重要性，更重要的是，愿意承担风险——因为这份工作本就充满风险。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 麦凯恩大使，执行主任。感谢你今天抽出时间接受采访。
麦凯恩： 谢谢。谢谢大家。
Full transcript: Cindy McCain on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” May 31, 2026
2026-05-31T06:32:00-0400 / CBS News
The following is the full transcript of the interview with Cindy McCain, executive director of the U.N. World Food Programme, a portion of which aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on May 31, 2026.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to the Executive Director of the United Nations World Food Programme, Cindy McCain, who joins us from Rome. Welcome back to Face the Nation.
U.N. WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR CINDY MCCAIN: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Executive Director, you have so much work on your plate, given the data shows a record high number of people seeking urgent food and livelihood assistance. We’re just five months in to 2026. What’s the trajectory we’re on?
MCCAIN: Right now, it’s not very good, clearly, because of the- the large amount of people, number one, that are- are food insecure. Our ability to feed and feed at scale is not too good, because we right- this year have only received half of the money that we need to be able to feed the amount of people we- we are looking at right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Half of the money you need, is that because of the U.S. cuts or a global pullback in helping feed the hungry?
MCCAIN: It’s both, it’s U.S. and the global pullback. It’s not one country by any stretch, but it’s collectively everybody.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you explain that?
MCCAIN: Some of the countries have begun looking internally, and- and their constituents are asking for less money for foreign aid and more money for- for domestic uses, and I certainly understand that, but what- with what we are- have looked at, and what we are looking at now, with regards to not just hunger, but we’re looking at several more famines, by the way, so that would be- we’ve already had two, which is unprecedented, we add two more, you see what we’ve got. So we really need countries and private sector, as well as private- not just private sector, but also corporations, etc., to- to step up, and to some degree they are. We’ve had a great deal more involvement with our private sector and our corporations, but we have- it’s going to collectively take all of us to be able to fix this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to come back to this in a moment, but let’s talk about where the need is right now. There is this emergency response to Ebola in the Congo, that’s a country that’s already struggling, as I understand it, with about 27 million food insecure people. I know the U.S. State Department is pledging some help here, but- but what are you hearing about the situation on the ground for emergency responders like yours?
MCCAIN: Well, clearly we are a large part of the emergency response there, and it is a group- as you know, the WHO is in there, we’re in there, several- several other NGOs, etc. It’s not good, and this is it’s- it’s hitting people in a mass way, and there’s really no- no way to know right now how many people have been affected by this. We know that it’s- it’s a rampage now with it. So, what- what we need to do is not only be able to get in, we- we run logistics, we bring in supplies, we bring in people, and we- and we do much more than that as well, just in the region, but this is going to take a real-world effort. This is very deadly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You said there’s a rampage of Ebola.
MCCAIN: Yeah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean, are you able- are you able to keep your workers on the ground?
MCCAIN: Our workers are on the ground, but my- one of my big projects, my- the reason- a large reason of what we planned today was taking care of our own people, the duty of care, and that comes into play because right now there’s no adequate facilities set up to handle that, and so we’re looking, you- obviously putting together a task force and a team that will do just that to make sure that we’re protected, as well as, of course, anyone that is from WFP.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There was also the conflict in Sudan that broke out while you were in this role as executive director, and I know it’s required a lot of your attention. The U.N. says it’s the world’s worst humanitarian crisis. Is there any movement forward? Is there any progress?
MCCAIN: Well, we’re seeing a little bit of progress and mind you, little means really little, but a little bit of progress towards Darfur. We’re able to set up- kind of moving more of our people on into the Sudan side rather than staging out of Chad, but it’s still extremely difficult, because on any given day one of the factions may get involved and stop us from moving at all and getting any food in it at- at- at any time, but I am also a big believer that- that eventually this will be solved, and more importantly, I believe in the good faith of the people that- that we serve, and that they will- will somehow survive this, but also remember that people do care about them, and that’s kind of where- when I saw them, I’ve been in Sudan, what I- what I witnessed were people that thought- had no hope, and people do care, and I always reiterate that when I go.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you have been in this role at a time when there are so many hot spots, so many conflicts, and of course the Mideast continues to be a big challenge. I understand that you still do have some operations inside of Iran. As you know, there isn’t a free press on the ground able to document what’s happening. What can you tell us about how civilians there are doing?
MCCAIN: Well, we have a very small team, as you just mentioned, and we are getting some intel out of there, obviously, because we do have a team, not only to listen to, but to protect as well. Things aren’t good. I mean, let’s face it, when you shut the Strait of Hormuz, and you’ve got bombings on both sides all the way up and down, people are going to not only become food insecure, but they’re going to starve. It’s time to end this and make sure that we can open the Strait of Hormuz, because it’s affecting everybody, and it will take us months to get back on track when they do open it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Months to get back on track. Why is that? Because the ships with the food are stuck, or because of the food prices? Why?
MCCAIN: Prices, availability, movement. Good example is that we- we do work in Afghanistan, and before what would usually take us three weeks, maybe, to get the food in from where it comes in from, now takes us almost three months, and so- so in the- but in the meantime, women and children, which are always the first to be hit, are starving, and so this is the case with all of them. When you talk about fertilizer, when you talk about seeds, of course, and other things, they’re being moved around that help stave off hunger. It’s a real problem. So we’re looking very hopeful that these peace talks will- will happen and that we can open the Strait.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Beyond Iran, Israel has stepped up its campaign against Hezbollah in Lebanon, and I know there’s a large number of refugees there. In Gaza, there have been all these ceasefire violations, hundreds of Palestinians killed since the ceasefire was announced. Hamas, the armed groups, they have not disarmed like they were supposed to. Israeli troops are still there. Bigger picture, when you look at the destruction in the Middle East just within the past few years, how do you describe to an American at home what the longer term impact is?
MCCAIN: Well, the longer term impact, to- to put it very bluntly, is not good. You know, we staved off hunger in Gaza when it was finally- the ceasefire held, and we were able to get trucks in at scale. We’re back to where we were. We can’t get trucks in at scale. People are- are, you know, as you know, there’s bombings, there’s all those things, and we’re looking at not just a serious situation, we’re looking at possibly losing a generation of children, so in any of these countries where there’s an issue – Lebanon, Gaza, Syria, Sudan, you know, all the ones that- that I’ve been to, plus Ukraine – it- access and being able to get in at scale is most important, and make sure- making sure that our humanitarian workers are not targets and that we respect humanitarian law, and that simply isn’t happening right now. It’s very dangerous to be an aid worker right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you mean losing a generation of children?
MCCAIN: Well, when you- when you talk about kids that are not- either not getting enough food or what they’re getting is not nutritious enough, and plus there’s no schools open, and there’s no, you know, proper housing, clean water, etc. medicine, etc. that- that spells disaster for a child, especially. And so I’m, obviously, one that has- as a mother first, and a grandmother six times over, and so I see it through my mother’s eyes. I, you know, it- you will do anything to feed your children, anything as a parent, and the fact that that can’t- it’s not happening in so many of these areas now is really alarming and very desperate.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’ve heard you say feed them now or fight them later. You draw a direct connection to national security and radicalization.
MCCAIN: Yes. No, you’re absolutely right. We believe that, because when folks who are hungry can’t get adequate nutrition or food, they will turn to the bad guys, because food’s offered there. So it turns- you see- if you see what I’m saying. It makes it very difficult for people to turn that down if they’re trying to feed their families, and then in the meantime, we have a growing number of- of a lot of these factions around the world as a result of it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to come back to something you said about aid workers. According to the U.N., there have been over 1,000 aid workers killed over the past three years, and I know you’ve been calling on global leaders to enforce humanitarian law. You’ve said it’s never been harder to work in this field. Why do you think that is? Is it because there are just a growing number of conflicts? Is there just no regard anymore for international law?
MCCAIN: I think it’s a perfect storm of all of it, to be honest with you. People aren’t caring, factions aren’t caring, they’re- the- the inability for us to move in, move in at scale, etc. all the things that’re being- being- that we’ve talked about, and when you- when you talk about conflict, that’s what’s happening. It’s- we have issues with climate change, we have issues with weather, etc., but the biggest- the biggest problem in all this is conflict. And ceasefire, allowing complete unfettered access, and most importantly, a full respect for humanitarian law and humanitarian aid workers, and that simply isn’t happening at all right now. We had, as you know, as you may have seen, we had a convoy attacked last week, and then we had our- our warehouse blown up, and this- these were both in Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I did see that. A drone hit a truck and Russia hit a warehouse with a missile.
MCCAIN: Right. With a missile.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In another day- a missile, which you target, right? So it suggests deliberateness. In another day and age, the United States would have loudly condemned it. I didn’t hear that happen.
MCCAIN: Well, I’m hoping that they will. You know, I have to- I have to believe in the good faith of the American people, and I’m hoping that they will stand up for what’s right and for the people who cannot help themselves. But in the meantime, we’re doing the very best we can. Our warehouses and our trucks are highly visible in terms of you know it’s a WFP warehouse, you know it’s a WFP truck. So you’re- you’re correct. We believe they were targeted.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we don’t know the consequence yet for Russia in having done that.
MCCAIN: No, no.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I was reading something that you said, and I want to come back to it, because I think it’s a pretty big statement. You recently were asked about the conservative movement, and that within the conservative movement, aid, you said, has become a dirty word, and being a humanitarian useless. You’re a lifelong conservative. When- when you describe things going this direction, that has to be hard to stomach. Why do you think this is happening? And do you think it is temporary?
MCCAIN: I will say this. Obviously, that was- that was frustration speaking to a great degree. I believe there are many, many, many good people in the United States are more than willing to help this cause, or help, you know, whatever- whatever they see fit to do for all of this, but we need more of it, and we need- we need actionable items from not just the United States, but other countries around the globe that will stand up also and help us. We can’t do this alone, and we’re- we’re hoping, as you know, the United States is our largest donor, and we’re very proud of that. But we need everybody involved in this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you don’t see China or Russia stepping up? Or the European powers stepping up?
MCCAIN: No, but- but again, I’m also a big believer in the good- good nature of people, and I’m hopeful I can eventually put myself out of business.
MARGARET BRENNAN: America, though, has changed its policy towards aid. The Trump administration uses that phrase- phrase trade not aid, arguing they’re going to be more efficient and more effective with the support they provide in the form of foreign assistance. When you look at the places you operate, do you think there has been an impact from the dismantling of USAID?
MCCAIN: I do. I really- I do. AID was- was an intimate part of all of these things, and- and of course we relied on them- on them to a degree as well. I wish we still had AID, but it was the choice of this administration, and so we have to work with that. I do- I am hoping, though, that eventually we can put back some of the soft power aspects that we were able to do, as well. As you know, that’s a very important part of, at least U.S. aid, but again, I’m not criticizing anybody in the administration. I’m simply saying we need help.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The administration pushes back on any criticism of- of its choices, saying that it’s unfair to burden the American taxpayer and the- with the full burden of taking care of every person on Earth. Why–
MCCAIN: I don’t disagree.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, but why aren’t more countries stepping up if- if the United States is drawing this line? Is it just that there is a loss of faith in the United Nations in these international institutions, or do they just not think it’s in their interest to help the people that you say are going to become a threat to everyone’s security?
MCCAIN: I think it’s a little of everything. Listen, in the beginning, when I first took on WFP, I knew we needed to scale back, I knew we had to be slimmer, I knew we had to operate within our means, and that’s exactly what we’ve done. We’ve managed to push that through, and that’s how we operate now. Listen, every organization can- can do better, and can- needs to scale down. I mean, that- that just happens. There was a time and place where money was- was flush within the U.N. agencies and within the entities that we work with as well. It’s not that way anymore, and people have a right to ask how the money is being spent. I do not disagree with any of that. So, it is important that- that the agency scale back, that we- we become more nimble, more effective, better use of- of AI, better use of technology, all the things that we can do to make ourselves much better at what we do, and make us much more efficient at what we do. So, I, you know, the U.S. government, or I mean, the U.S. people have a right to ask questions, and so do other countries. I understand that, and we have the- the burden of making sure that we do exactly what we should be doing, and that is getting the most food and the most access to the people we serve, and those are ones who cannot help themselves.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You are stepping back from this job within the next few days. You have the McCain name, the power, the leadership abilities when you go up on Capitol Hill to lobby Republican lawmakers in particular, to help overcome some of the reluctance we’ve been talking about. Who can fill this role after you? What advice do you have for them to be able to make the case that it is in America’s national security to help the needy in the way that you’re arguing?
MCCAIN: Well, first of all, I go to both sides, because food security, in my opinion, is nonpartisan. So, I talk to everybody, anybody who will talk to me about food security, I talk to. I think this person, whoever this person is, I hope will lead from their heart, because we push- at WFP, we believe in pushing everything to the field, our frontline workers, the people that we serve, not keeping this at headquarters. It needs to go into the field. I hope whoever takes this job leads with their heart, understands the nature of what we’re doing and the importance of it, and more importantly, is willing to take risks, because that’s what this job is.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ambassador McCain, Executive Director. Thank you for your time today.
MCCAIN: Thank you. Thank you.