2026-03-22T13:32:00-0400 / CBS新闻
以下是2026年3月22日在《面对国家》节目中播出的对美国驻联合国大使迈克·沃尔茨的采访实录。
玛格丽特·布伦南：查理·达加塔从以色列阿拉德为您报道。现在我们请来了美国驻联合国大使迈克·沃尔茨，非常高兴您能亲临现场。
沃尔茨大使：谢谢你，玛格丽特。
玛格丽特·布伦南：大使，周五总统发推文称，”霍尔木兹海峡必须由使用该海峡的其他国家进行必要的守卫和管控——美国不会这样做！” 然后昨晚他威胁称，如果伊朗在其发文后的48小时内不全面开放霍尔木兹海峡，美国将”打击并摧毁”伊朗的发电厂，首先从”最大的那个”开始。那么到底是美国会武力开放海峡，还是让其他国家来做？
沃尔茨大使：嗯，我认为两者都有可能。这并不一定相互排斥。我很高兴您请到了北约秘书长马克·吕特。在他的敦促和领导下，我们看到意大利、德国、法国以及其他许多国家已经承诺协助这项行动。
玛格丽特·布伦南：——在战斗行动结束后。
沃尔茨大使：特别是考虑到，特别是因为大量能源是从海峡运往欧洲的。我们刚刚得知日本首相已承诺派遣其海军的部分力量参与行动，而80%从海湾地区出口的能源都运往亚洲。所以我们看到盟友们如他们应有的那样纷纷响应，但同时，总统不会容忍这个政权——它五十年以来一直以种族灭绝的意图威胁并劫持全球能源供应。
玛格丽特·布伦南：一些盟友如英国已经谈到了诸如监视、反水雷、反无人机支援等支持美国的行动。但我要说明的是，这是在美国提出的海峡行动请求中，且仅在战斗行动结束后才会启动。
沃尔茨大使：总统也已明确表态。他将继续打击伊朗的导弹、海军和无人机能力。玛格丽特，我们必须退一步看。我们已经看到伊朗现在攻击港口、机场、民用基础设施、酒店、度假村，并试图破坏全球能源供应。人们不禁会想，如果伊朗有核保护伞会怎样？如果伊朗实现其核试验目标会怎样？然后沙特阿拉伯可能会寻求核计划，阿联酋、土耳其或其他国家也可能跟进。当人们问为什么这与我们国内安全相关时，每个美国人都应该感到震惊：一个可能拥有核武器的中东地区，充斥着武器，这会是怎样的局面？
玛格丽特·布伦南：但他们现在并没有在浓缩铀。美国官员在作证时承认这一点。但回到总统所说的——
沃尔茨大使：嗯，他们无法浓缩铀是因为”午夜锤行动”摧毁了他们的浓缩能力。他们原本打算继续进行。
玛格丽特·布伦南：他们确实有一座核电站——布什尔核电站，实际上这是他们最大的能源设施，是民用设施。
沃尔茨大使：它实际上不是他们最大的能源设施。它大约是1吉瓦。他们在德黑兰以外有更大的天然气火力发电厂。但这一点（说明）是对的。
玛格丽特·布伦南：好的，但——但在这个澄清中，我问你的原因是，当总统说他要轰炸能源基础设施，民用能源基础设施时，他会轰炸核电站吗，还是这是禁区？
沃尔茨大使：嗯，我绝不会在国家电视台上把任何事情从总统的选项中排除。不过，确实存在更大的发电厂。德黑兰以外有一个，其他城市也有燃气和火力发电厂。我认为这里的关键点是要理解伊斯兰革命卫队——不仅我们将其列为——
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的，欧洲也这样认为。
沃尔茨大使：——而且在许多欧洲国家，它控制了伊朗的大片关键基础设施、经济以及许多治理机构。因此，在我们削弱其军事能力和国防工业基础的范围内，所有选项都应摆在桌面上，总统也已明确这一点。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你如何确保这不会构成战争罪，联合国秘书长曾表示，攻击能源基础设施可能构成战争罪。你如何确保这不是对无辜平民的大规模惩罚？
沃尔茨大使：嗯，我认为你知道，我会鼓励并将鼓励秘书长指出，该政权大规模屠杀了20至30万伊朗人，而他们攻击的民用基础设施——
[交叉对话开始]
玛格丽特·布伦南：——没有人支持那种做法，但是你如何确保这不会伤害——
沃尔茨大使：——当你面对一个控制着大量关键基础设施的政权，而这个政权不仅用这些基础设施镇压本国人民、攻击邻国，而且违反联合国制裁，向核武器迈进时，那么这些就是合法目标。
[交叉对话结束]
玛格丽特·布伦南：好的，你知道在许多这样的地方，海水淡化设施与能源基础设施（民用设施）相连。这就是为什么这被视为战争罪的问题所在。
沃尔茨大使：我毫不怀疑，总统和五角大楼的团队会确保他们的目标是伊朗的军事基础设施。但我必须告诉您，伊朗政权长期以来蓄意将武器藏在学校和医院下，将发电厂和其他关键基础设施既用于民用又用于军事，并且蓄意违反国际法。
玛格丽特·布伦南：让我们谈谈昨晚的导弹袭击。国家情报总监上周向国会作证称，伊朗如果试图发展洲际弹道导弹（ICBM），最早要到2035年才能具备军事可行性。昨天，以色列国防军（IDF）称伊朗确实发射了一枚洲际弹道导弹。这是否改变了美国的评估？
沃尔茨大使：我不熟悉以色列国防军的评估。我可以告诉你——
玛格丽特·布伦南：他们说发射到迪戈加西亚岛的是洲际弹道导弹。
沃尔茨大使：我可以告诉你，英国刚刚谴责伊朗向迪戈加西亚岛发射中程弹道导弹，而伊朗此前一直谎称他们尚未发展此类导弹，这是谎言。他们刚刚确实这么做了。这种导弹不仅能击中迪戈加西亚岛，还能击中欧洲的首都。玛格丽特，伊朗一直在其太空计划的掩护下隐藏的技术。我认为伊朗宇航员短期内不会登上月球。这个太空计划一直在掩盖技术。将再入技术与两者结合，实际上并不需要太多技术发展。我们只需要——感谢上帝，总统现在采取行动，阻止伊朗向全面核计划推进，而不是像克林顿政府时期那样等到一切都已既成事实，突然发现朝鲜已有完整核计划。
玛格丽特·布伦南：所以评估存在差异。但让我们谈谈我们的民调。
沃尔茨大使：顺便说一句，不同情报机构之间存在不同的评估并非首次。
玛格丽特·布伦南：这是肯定的。政府未能说服大多数美国人认为这场战争是必要的。66%的美国人认为与伊朗的冲突是自愿战争。60%的人不赞成美国对伊朗采取军事行动。57%的美国人认为局势进展非常糟糕或有些糟糕。你如何告诉美国人民他们错了？
沃尔茨大使：嗯，我可以引用大量民调数据，例如，自称支持特朗普的共和党人对总统的支持率达到100%——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——他的基本盘在里面，这是肯定的——
沃尔茨大使：大多数人认为，总统的首要职责是保护美国人安全。我可以引用NBC的一项民调，90%的共和党人，更广泛地说，支持特朗普摧毁伊朗核能力的努力。我必须指出，这并不令人惊讶。总统特朗普在2016年和2020年的竞选活动中就表示伊朗不能拥有核武器。自2024年以来，他在公开场合已经说了74次。
玛格丽特·布伦南：但如果他要派遣任何地面部队，你不认为他需要说服大多数美国民众，而不仅仅是他的基本盘吗？
沃尔茨大使：我认为总统将保留所有选项以确保这些目标的实现。作为一名退伍军人和父亲，我感谢上帝他没有像过去五十年那样踢皮球，等到问题变得灾难性、我们几乎没有选择余地时才采取行动，更不用说整个中东可能充斥核武器了。
玛格丽特·布伦南：沃尔茨大使，感谢您今天早上的时间。
沃尔茨大使：好的，谢谢。
玛格丽特·布伦南：《面对国家》节目稍后回来，请继续收看。
Transcript: U.N. Ambassador Mike Waltz on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” March 22, 2026
2026-03-22T13:32:00-0400 / CBS News
The following is the transcript of the interview with Mike Waltz, U.S. ambassador to the U.N., that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on March 22, 2026.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s Charlie D’Agata reporting in Arad, Israel. We’re joined now by the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Mike Waltz, and it’s good to have you here in person.
AMB. MIKE WALTZ: Thank you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So Ambassador, on Friday, the president tweeted, “The Hormuz Strait will have to be guarded and policed, as necessary, by other Nations who use it — The United States does not!” And then last night he threatened that if Iran doesn’t fully open the Strait of Hormuz within 48 hours from the time of his post, the US will “hit and obliterate” their power plants, starting with the “biggest one first.” So which is it, is the U.S. opening Hormuz by force or having others do it.
AMB. WALTZ: Well, I think it can be both. It’s not necessarily mutually exclusive. I am glad you are having NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte on. I think at his urging and his leadership, we have now seen Italy, Germany, France and a number of others commit to help with this effort.
MARGARET BRENNAN: –After combat operations end.
AMB. WALTZ: Particularly since, particularly since so much energy is going to Europe out of the strait. We just had the Japanese Prime Minister commit to portions of her navy and the Japanese navy, 80% of what is coming out of the Gulf is going to Asia. So we are seeing our allies come around as they should, but at the same time, the president is not going to stand for this regime, as it has threatened and tried for five decades to hold the world’s energy supplies hostage under its, its genocidal intent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So some allies like the United Kingdom have talked about things like surveillance, anti-mining, anti-drone support for the United States. But in that appeal from the United States, I should say in the Strait of Hormuz, but not until active combat ends. To be clear, that is what we are talking about.
AMB. WALTZ: And the president has been clear too. He’s going to continue to pound Iran’s capabilities, its missile, its naval and its drone capability. Margaret, we have to take a step back. We have seen what it’s doing now in terms of attacking ports, airports, civilian infrastructure, hotels, resorts, and what it is trying to do to global energy supplies. One can only imagine if it had a nuclear umbrella. One could only imagine if Iran achieved its aim to test. Then you have Saudi Arabia wanting a nuclear program, then perhaps the UAE, Turkey or others. And when people ask why this matters to our security here at home, it should petrify every American that you could potentially have a nuclear Middle East awash in weapons.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, they are not enriching. They weren’t enriching leading up to this. This is what U.S. officials have testified to. But just on this point about what the president–
AMB. WALTZ: Well they couldn’t enrich because of Operation Midnight Hammer that obliterated their ability to enrich. They had every intent to continue.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They do have a nuclear power plant, Bushehr. It’s actually their largest energy plant. It’s a civilian site.
AMB. WALTZ: It is actually not their largest energy plant. It is about one, about one gigawatt. They have larger ones that are gas, fired outside of Tehran. But just case in point, yeah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, but- but in this case, in that clarification, the reason I am asking you is when the president says he is going to bomb energy infrastructure, civilian energy infrastructure, is he going to bomb a nuclear power plant, or is that off the table.
AMB. WALTZ: Well, I would never take anything off the table for the president, certainly not on national television. However, there are larger plants. There is one outside of Tehran. There are others outside of other cities that are gas fired, thermal powered. I think the important point here is to understand the IRGC, a declared terrorist organization, not only by us–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah, in Europe too.
AMB. WALTZ: –but in a number of European countries, controls a huge swath of Iran’s critical infrastructure, their economy and certainly many of their governing institutions. And so to the extent we are degrading their military capability and their defense industrial base, all options should be on the table, and the president has made that very clear.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you ensure that this doesn’t constitute a war crime, which the UN Secretary General said an attack on energy infrastructure could be. How do you make sure this is not mass punishment for innocent civilians?
AMB. WALTZ: Well, I think you know, I would encourage and will encourage the Secretary General to point out the twenty to thirty thousand Iranians that the regime massacred at scale, the civilian infrastructure that they are attacking–
[CROSS-TALK STARTS]
MARGARET BRENNAN: –No one is endorsing that but how do you make sure this doesn’t hurt–
AMB. WALTZ: — And when you, but when have a regime that has its grips on so much critical infrastructure, that is using it to further not only the repression of its own people, to attack its neighbors, and in contravention of UN sanctions, to march towards a nuclear weapon, then that makes those legitimate targets.
[CROSS-TALK ENDS]
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, well, you know that in many of these places, water desalination is linked into that energy infrastructure, civilian infrastructure. This is why it is a question of it being a war crime.
AMB. WALTZ: I have no doubt that the president, the Pentagon, their team will ensure that what they target is geared towards the military infrastructure of Iran. But I have to tell you, they deliberately blend, have a long history, everything from hiding weapons under schools and hospitals to using power plants and other critical infrastructure to not only power their military but their civilian, and they deliberately blend in contravention of international law.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you about what we saw overnight with these missile attacks. The Director of National Intelligence testified last week to Congress that Iran could not develop a militarily viable ICBM, intercontinental ballistic missile, before 2035 if it attempted to pursue that capability. Yesterday, the IDF said Israel said that Iran did fire an ICBM. Has this changed the U.S. assessment?
AMB. WALTZ: I am not familiar with the IDF assessment. I can tell you–
MARGARET BRENNAN: They said what was fired at Diego Garcia and them was an ICBM.
AMB. WALTZ: I can tell you the UK just condemned the firing of an intermediate range ballistic missile at Diego Garcia, that same type of missile Iran has lied about in terms of its development, said they were not developing yet. They just lied. Yet they just did it. Not only could it hit Diego Garcia, it could hit capitals in Europe. And Margaret, the technology, the booster technology that Iran has been hiding behind its space program. I don’t think we are going to see Iranian astronauts on the moon anytime soon. That this space program has been hiding that technology. You have the re-entry technology to marry the two really does not take very much in terms of technological development. And we just have to you know, thank God the president is taking action now and stopping this march towards a fully fledged nuclear program, instead of waiting until after it’s developed, like we saw in North Korea under the Clinton administration say, surprise, we now have, a full program.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So a difference there in the assessments. But let me ask you about our polling.
AMB. WALTZ: It wouldn’t be the first time you have different intelligence assessments, by the way, by different intelligence communities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Absolutely. The administration has not convinced, we’ve seen it in our polling, the majority of Americans that this war was necessary. Sixty six percent of Americans believe conflict with Iran is a war of choice. Sixty percent disapprove of the US taking military action against Iran. Fifty seven percent of Americans think the conflict is going very or somewhat badly. How do you tell the American people they’re wrong?
AMB. WALTZ: Well, I can. I could quote a whole slew of polls that show, for example, self-described MAGA Republicans give the president a 100% percent approval rating–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –his base is in there, absolutely–
AMB. WALTZ: A majority say the number one job of the commander in chief is to keep Americans safe. I can point here to an NBC poll, 90% of Republicans, broader Republicans, support Trump’s effort to destroy Iran’s nuclear capabilities. And I have to point out, no one should be surprised here. President Trump has said Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon 2016 campaign, 2020 campaign. Since 2024 he has said it seventy four times out in the public space.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But if he is going to commit any kind of ground troops or boots on the ground. Don’t you think he needs to persuade the majority of American people, not just his base?
AMB. WALTZ: I think the president will keep all options on the table to secure these objectives. And as a veteran, as a parent, I thank God he is not kicking the can like so many administrations have for fifty years, until this is a catastrophic problem where we have very limited options to deal with, much less an entire Middle East potentially awash in nukes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ambassador Walz, thank you for your time this morning.
AMB. WALTZ: All right, thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation will be back in a minute, so stay with us.