《与玛格丽特·布伦南面对全国》完整节目实录 2026年5月31日

Full transcript of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” May 31, 2026

2026-05-31T14:21:17-0400 / https://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-full-transcript-05-31-2026/

On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:

• Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy
• Sen. Chris Murphy, Democrat of Connecticut
• Former Vice PresidentMike Pence
• Cindy McCain, U.N. World Food Programme executive director

Click here to browse full transcripts from 2026 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”

*

MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.

And this week on Face the Nation: The diplomatic dance between the U.S. and Iran continues, as Ukraine makes an impassioned plea for more help from the U.S.

We spoke exclusively with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who issued a warning:

(Begin VT)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY (Ukrainian President): When we know that Russia prepares a big, massive attack, definitely.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And urgently requested anti-ballistic missile weaponry from the U.S., whose supply is already stretched thin by that war with Iran.

Back home, as midterm matchups prepare for their November contests, does character count anymore when it comes to politics? We will talk with former Vice President Mike Pence, as well as Connecticut Democratic Senator Chris Murphy. They both have new books out, and they both have thoughts on the future of their respective political parties.

We will also hear from the outgoing head of the U.N.’s World Food Program, Cindy McCain, on the difficulty of feeding the world in challenging times.

It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.

Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.

As we await developments in the back-and-forth between the U.S. and Iran over a framework for a truce in the now-three-month-long war, CBS News has learned that the president made further edits to the U.S. proposal on Friday, and mediators now wait on Iran’s response.

We begin today with Ukrainian fears that Russia will soon stage a massive attack on Kyiv, which sources tell CBS News could include strikes on the presidential office and government buildings.

When we spoke exclusively to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Friday, he told us about the increased attacks from the Russians in recent weeks and the dire need for assistance from the U.S.

(Begin VT)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY (Ukrainian President): We think that we will have a big attack from Russian side using drones, using cruise missiles and ballistic.

And we see the preparation. Always, we see the preparation. By the way, we are thankful to United States and European partners when they share with us intelligence. So, when we know that Russia prepares a big, massive attack, definitely, our partners also know, maybe not a lot of details, but we know.

We have each day attack from the Russian side on civilians, and, of course, on battlefield. And two times a week or two times per 10 days, they have big, massive attacks with ballistic and et cetera.

Last massive attack, just to understand, it was some days ago. It was 600 drones, Iranian drones, Shaheds. And they had about 35 – about 30-plus ballistic missiles. And, in total, it was 90 missiles and more than 600 Iranian drones. So it was very difficult to destroy it.

We use all our weapons, what we have, what we produce. And, of course, we use anti-ballistic missiles. This is the biggest deficit for us.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re hearing from European countries that Russia is taking more and more operational risks in Europe. Why do you think Vladimir Putin is taking these risks at this moment?

PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: First of all, it’s not the first time he has – he is doing such pressure. I think it’s political pressure. It’s messages from Russia, don’t help Ukraine.

I think this is the most – the most usual meaning, what he used. Don’t – if you will help Ukraine, I will do these such steps.

So, he begin – he tried once crossing. At the very beginning of this war, he did it in Romania, and then a little bit later, it was in Poland, when they used 21 drones. Usually, we try to catch all the drones even when they go – when their – direction to other countries like Romania, Moldova or the direction of Poland.

We try to catch everything. If we can’t, of course, we give these messages to our partners. We try to help them, and also the same with the Baltic countries, Estonia, Latvia. So, Russia uses this just to attack politically and by weapon pressure on NATO countries to look and their reaction.

So, the reaction, we – I think the reaction has to be more strong from the unity of NATO countries. And I think that Putin is comparing how this reaction and how it’s changed during this one year or two year, three year.

This is the way how – and he also – the testing of air defense of other countries, NATO countries which are bordering us or bordering Belarus or Russia. So, he’s testing what air defense they have. Can they destroy all the – all the missiles or drones? This is what I think.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You sent a personal letter to the White House and to Congress within the past few days explaining that ballistic missiles, as you put it, remain Vladimir Putin’s last major battlefield advantage.

You need a surge of interceptors to take these missiles out. Have you gotten a response from America?

PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: This is the biggest – this is the priority for us, and big, big challenge.

We had very difficult, tough winter. Russia attacked us by lots of ballistic missiles on our energy infrastructure, water supply, schools. It was – it was very difficult.

Now we see big deficit. Of course, one of the reasons it’s the situation in the Middle East with the Iranian war, and we see that the deficit is increasing, and we need to hurry up, to rush and to send messages and meetings and do a lot of meetings with other partners.

We don’t see enough missiles in production of the United States. We see that this is – it can be crisis in the world, including Middle East, of course. I hope, God bless, that the cease-fire will be long and lasting peace. I wish it to Middle East countries and to the United States.

And I hope that President Trump and his team and American side will negotiate cease-fire. But what we see, we have to prepare for the challenges. And we, in Ukraine, we don’t have cease-fire, we have long five-years war, and we see that Russia is increasing their internal production, the production of ballistic missiles.

And we have deficit with anti-ballistic. This is big problem. I sent a letter to the White House and Congress of the United States, and I hope that they will understand and will answer, respond. And this is very important. We need to increase the production.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary of State Rubio recently said that Ukraine has the strongest military in all of Europe. The Army secretary of the United States called the Ukrainian battlefield the Silicon Valley of war, praising how you’ve integrated A.I. and anti-drone technology.

So, you have this edge on this type of warfare. Can you use it in any way to take down these Russian missiles, or are you solely dependent on American manufacturing to help?

PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: Well, we’ve got messages to help in the Middle East to defend some bases with American soldiers and also infrastructure of Middle East countries like Saudi or Emirates, et cetera.

And I came with – with our groups. We sent two – more than 200 our experts, such a level of sort and different kind of interceptors, radars, systems of electronic warfare, and nobody has. And secretary is right. So we have – and we can destroy all kinds of drones.

We can destroy a lot of different missiles, but we don’t have – still, in our total program and system, we don’t have anti-ballistic. This is the biggest problem. Yes, we are on the way.

By the way, I wanted to say, we will build it, I know, but we need time for this. But during this time, we lose people. And we remember that United States helped us from the very beginning of this war, so, of course, we are very thankful, and we are ready to share what we have.

But until the moment we will produce our European anti-ballistic system, until this moment, we need support from the United States.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Rubio said there are no negotiations scheduled between Russia and Ukraine. He seems to be acknowledging this is completely stalled.

President Putin’s spokesperson said it is too early to speak in specifics about the end of the war. Do you think Russia can ever come to negotiate an end?

PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: Yes, of course.

We are ready to speak bilaterally with Russia. I’m ready to meet with Putin if he will be ready. I think we need more sanctions. I think we need more pressure. And you asked when they will be ready and if, if they will be ready. Theoretically, I think, yes, more sanctions, more pressure, they will be ready for the dialogue. Even now, they have losses, 30,000, 35,000 soldiers, Russian soldiers, per month.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.

PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: And it’s a huge number of losses. Really, we increased this number. We – I mean, they increased the number to attack us, and that’s why the number of losses is very big.

And, each month, you have to know that they mobilize I think the same very comparable number with losses. So this is a problem for them, the deficit of people. And they are on the way to the big crisis with the people. I think all these things will push them to the dialogue.

MARGARET BRENNAN: When is the last time you heard from Secretary Rubio, or Steve Witkoff or Jared Kushner, the president’s peace envoys? And will they ever come to Kyiv?

PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: Yes, we count on their coming to Kyiv.

I hope that they will find a possibility to come here in two weeks. But at least I have got such message from my negotiation group. They told me that they had contacts with Steve and Jared. And they said that they are ready to come to Ukraine and to speak, if, of course, if, always if, you know, Margaret. And, today, if, it mean Middle East.

So I don’t know what will be in the Middle East and how you close to negotiations, positive one. Again, hope so. So, I don’t know if – but that – I think that we need to see American negotiation group in Ukraine. They’ve never been here.

I think it’s important not all – also for us. It’s useful for them to understand, to see, to see people, that their life is going on. But we want to stop this war. It means to stop Russia. They’ve been several times in Moscow. I said previously about it, if they want to go this time to Moscow, they have to come to Kyiv and then go to Moscow, I think it will be helpful.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Before I let you go, I just want to come back to what you mentioned in regard to drone technology and this offer that you made to the United States. Is the deal progressing or is it stalled?

PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: So, we wanted very much to do the first drone deal with the United States, like with the first strategic partner.

But the United States wanted to check all our types of drones. We signed – we accepted, I accepted this document, this way how they wanted us to train, to check, to use it in the sky, on the water, because we have not only sky drones. We have sea drones, and et cetera.

So I accepted this way. But we still didn’t accept a drone deal, like the big document. I hope that we are on the way. But we have already drone deals with some Middle East countries, and we have already drone deals with some European countries.

Now we’re preparing the big drone deal with E.U. And I hope that we will have such decisions with American partners. I count on it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You count on it. And you need to keep working with Silicon Valley and American technology companies on this?

PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: We want very much, yes, because American technological companies, they have a lot of different interesting A.I. technologies, what we don’t have.

And we have a lot of things what they don’t have because our experience on the battlefield. I think this cooperation can be the – can be huge and the most powerful in the world. So we need – you know, we need to negotiate already, not to speak about it, just to make steps, and to do it as quick as possible.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You need President Trump to say yes, it sounds like.

PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: Yes, we need President Trump to say yes.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Our full interview with President Zelenskyy is available on our Web site, YouTube page and our podcast.

Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re back now with Connecticut Democratic Senator Chris Murphy. He is the author of a new book, “Crisis of the Common Good: The Fight for Meaning and Connection in a Broken America.” He joins us from Hartford, Connecticut.

Good morning to you, Senator.

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY (D-Connecticut): Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to talk about your book in a moment.

But just to pick up on where we left it with President Zelenskyy, do you believe that there is enough bipartisan support to press the Pentagon to reallocate some of these Patriots, so he can take down all the incoming Russian missiles?

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Yes, I doubt it, unfortunately.

I think the story here has been pretty simple from the start. Donald Trump does not want to do what is necessary to support Ukraine, and the Republican Party will always follow his lead. We’ve had a bipartisan sanctions bill sitting on the Senate floor for a year-and-a-half that would tighten the screws on the Russian economy, make it harder for them to fund the war.

Donald Trump has basically had a veto on that bill. He won’t allow Senate Republicans to bring it forward. He’s been sitting on $400 million that Congress allocated to help Ukraine. He hasn’t spent a dime of it, despite protests loudly, publicly and privately, from Senate Republicans.

So I just think, ultimately, Donald Trump has decided he does not want to help Ukraine, and there doesn’t seem to be enough courage in the Republican Caucus to fight back. I mean, I hope I’m wrong about that. This is obviously a critical moment, where Ukraine actually looks like it is about to be able to take a real offensive position. And so I’m rooting that they will finally stand up to the president on this.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But, to your point on the $400 million, Hegseth, the secretary of war, said that that was to be released, but we haven’t seen anything more.

I know you sit on the Appropriations Committee, so you have a chance to ask some of these questions potentially of Secretary Rubio when he sits before you on I believe Wednesday asking for a $33.6 billion budget. What’s the top priority when you do get to ask questions of the secretary?

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Well, the top priority is ending the war in Iran. This has been an absolute disaster for the United States.

Obviously, the primary impact is here at home, as families and businesses are being ruined by gas prices that are $6 a gallon in some places. But it’s just been a humiliation for the United States. And it’s made Iran more powerful.

Of course, there’s an impact in Russia as well. We’ve had to suspend sanctions on Russian oil in order to get their oil on the market. So the consequence of the Iran war is not just that Americans are dying, that prices are going up, but Russia is also getting more powerful. We’re literally funding their war effort.

So we need the Iran war to end. There’s been this talk of a deal for months and months and months. I think the terms of the deal are pretty humiliating, in and of themselves, but we just need this war done, no matter the terms, at this point.

MARGARET BRENNAN: On the point about the sanctions, we talked about that with President Zelenskyy, and you can see that full transcript online.

But I know that the White House pushes back and says the money isn’t that significant in terms of what Russia is able to pocket. You obviously disagree.

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Yes, I mean, I just think, from a moral perspective, no matter whether the money is a difference-maker, the idea that we are helping Russia fund this war is ridiculous. It’s not small potatoes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Russia is getting billions of additional dollars because of our sanctions relief. That’s allowing them to buy some of the missiles that are on the verge of raining down on Kyiv.

People are dying because of our help for Russia. So, it’s just bad enough that the Strait of Hormuz is closed and it’s hurting our economy.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: The fact that we are adding insult to injury by the war in Iran helping Russia is just unacceptable.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You have written this book that we mentioned, and I know that you said about it in a recent interview that 2028 Democratic contenders are texting you, talking to you about some of the ideas in it.

Some of our recent CBS polling found that 62 percent of registered voters view the Democratic party in a negative light. So how do you take these ideas, and what’s the main one Democrats need to hammer home to redirect the party?

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Yes, this book is really about the spiritual crisis in the country that led to Donald Trump. This is a country that is feeling more lonely, more adrift, more exhausted by an economy that abuses workers, a culture in which we tell people that they can make themselves happy by just buying things, instead of being active citizens.

And so it’s a book about the underlying work that we have to do to unrig the economy so that people feel purpose and value, and unrig our democracy so that people feel power. And that’s what the book really is about, the emotional state of the country.

Here’s what I think Democrats need to do. They need to understand that the people are furious at the fact that our politics have become captured, and people are feeling out of control of their lives because they think we’re all corrupt.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: They don’t think Donald Trump is just corrupt. They think everybody in politics is corrupt.

So, Democrats need to be much louder about the ways that we’re going to get billionaire and corporate money out of our politics, because people don’t believe us when we say we’re going to fix the economy…

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: … if we don’t also tell them how we’re going to fix our democracy.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

Well, to that point about spirit and character, the campaign for Graham Platner confirmed to CBS on Saturday that the Maine Senate candidate had sent sexually explicit texts to women other than his wife. This is in addition to other past controversies. Does he pass the character test?

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Yes, I mean, I have not followed this story as closely as others have.

But Graham Platner is somebody that served our country. He served his community. He’s also made mistakes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: And he has admitted that.

Character also involves standing up to people who are bankrupting and corrupting this country. And this race is going to be a contrast between somebody that has put his life on the line for this country against somebody that is literally empowering the moral hollowing out of our nation from the White House.

So, he certainly admitted that he has made mistakes, but I think this is going to be a pretty clear contrast in Maine between somebody who has spent his life protecting us versus somebody who seems to be protecting Donald Trump’s corruption.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you know, I want to ask you as well about an interview that aired right before this program with my colleague Rita Braver on CBS Sunday Morning.

She interviewed the former first lady Jill Biden about the new book she wrote, in which she talks about the infamous 2024 debate, where the then- president really couldn’t answer questions. She says a lot of things, including that she thought her husband was having a stroke, because she – he was incomprehensible.

She admits that she said to him afterwards that he really screwed up, but that’s what she’s revealing now. Democrats stridently, including on this program, said time and again that his cognitive abilities were fine. How do you convince the public that Democrats are telling the truth now?

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: Yes, listen, I think Democrats do have to be honest about the mistakes that we made in 2024.

Obviously, in retrospect, Joe Biden should have stepped away from that race. We should have had an open contest. And, in this book, I, frankly, talk about how tribal our politics have become, how Republicans are willing to excuse Donald Trump’s corruption because their entire identity structure is built around their party.

And I think that happens on the Democratic side as well, where we are willing to look the other way too often at mistakes that our own party leaders are making. And this book says that that’s not just up to politics to fix that, that we actually have to create more healthy identity structures for people outside of politics…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: … so they see their purpose through their work or through their connection to a local community.

And that makes our politics less tribal…

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY: … and maybe allows us on both sides to stand up to our party when we think they’ve gone wrong.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Senator Murphy, we have to leave it there. Thank you for your insights today.

We’ll be right back with more Face the Nation.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to “FACE THE NATION.”

We are joined now by former Vice President Mike Pence, who has a new book, “What Conservatives Believe: Rediscovering the Conservative Conscience.”

Good morning to you, Mr. Vice President.

MIKE PENCE (Former U.S. Vice President): Good morning, Margaret. Good to see you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You clearly think your party needs some reminders here. And you write that Americans are confused about what it means to be a conservative. You say, “for many right-wing populists, grievance dictates policy.”

Who or what are you thinking about there?

MIKE PENCE: Well, I think – look, from all of my adult life, the Republican Party has been defined by a commitment to a conservative agenda. To America as leader of the free world. To limited government. Free market economics. And traditional moral values, especially the right to life.

And I’m proud to say that from the Reagan administration, to the first Trump administration, we governed on that agenda. But I wrote “What Conservatives Believe” because just in the last four or five years, there’s been a rise of what I call the populist right, that focuses more on what we’re against than what we’re for, focuses more on grievance than a positive conservative agenda.

I mean, the conservative movement has always been battling politically with the progressive left. But now there’s a new threat from the populist right that would embrace policies of isolationism abroad, that would embrace big government and protectionism at home, marginalize the right to life. And as we go into this fall’s election and go into 2028, I thought it was important that we take a moment, as a party and as a movement, to remind ourselves what we believe.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Some of what you are describing isn’t just on the fringes or within the party.

MIKE PENCE: No. Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s the president of the United States who’s leader of that party.

MIKE PENCE: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you write, he has not always governed as a conservative.

I understand that the president’s overall approval rating is low. It is. But he seems to have this vice grip on the neck of the Republican Party right now. So, how can you revive a portion of it that he is in opposition to? I mean, right to life was one of them, as you just detailed.

You split with him very publicly on that. You think he betrayed it. You think he betrayed on –

MIKE PENCE: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: For example, spending and the way he’s dealing with some of the free market issues.

MIKE PENCE: Right. Well, look, I think the second Trump administration has got a lot right. They got the border secured after the worst border crisis in American history. They extended those Trump-Pence tax cuts that we passed in their entirety. They’ve stood without apology for our cherished ally Israel and took the fight directly to Iran.

But on other instances, you’ve seen the impact and the embrace by the president and people around him of the politics, of the populist right. The price controls on credit cards and pharmaceuticals. Nationalization of American businesses. Of course, broad-based tariffs on friend and foe alike. Add to that, marginalizing the right to life. Doing nothing about the broad distribution of the abortion pill by mail that Joe Biden and his administration made possible. And then the stops and starts on Ukraine. While they’ve been strong on Israel, strong with Iran, the stops and starts reflect more of the politics of the progressive left and appeasement than that time-honored conservative agenda that’s defined our party at home and abroad.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Why isn’t the party standing up to him then?

MIKE PENCE: Well, I – look, I give the president all kinds of credit. He –

MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve got majorities in the House and the Senate. They’re pretty silent.

MIKE PENCE: He has earned great loyalty among Republican primary voters.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Primary voters.

MIKE PENCE: We saw that in Texas. We saw that in Louisiana. We saw that in Indiana, in our recent state senate primaries.

And I think it’s because, look, the progressive left has been essentially in the saddle for about 100 years in this country. Ronald Reagan began the battle back. I think Republican voters truly appreciate the way that President Trump has fought back against the radical left and continues to, but I want our voters to know that there’s – there is this new push from the populist right. And as we look at the midterm elections, as we look at 2028 –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

MIKE PENCE: I think it’s important that we focus on what we’re for, because not only is it a winning agenda for Republican, Margaret, I believe it’s delivered freedom and prosperity for the American people.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, when you say primary voters, you know that that is not necessarily all Republican voters. Certainly, you just look at the turnouts in that Texas race to speak to that.

But isn’t your party, from the president on down, with this gerrymandering push, locking in the changes, that will only feed into that more extreme part of the party?

MIKE PENCE: Well, I – but, look, look, it’s, you know –

MARGARET BRENNAN: The populist point (ph).

MIKE PENCE: It’s awfully hard for Democrats to throw stones when they live in glass houses on gerrymandering. You know, there are – there are states around the country that –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure, but doesn’t gerrymandering disincentivize bipartisanship?

MIKE PENCE: Right. There’s states around the country, though, where 40 percent% of voters are Republicans and there are no Republican representatives from those states in the Congress.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you support the gerrymandering?

MIKE PENCE: So, I’ve never been a fan of partisan gerrymandering.

But look, I have great confidence in the American people and in Republican voters. I think if we hold the banner of American leadership on the world stage, of limited government, free market economics, of traditional values and the right to life high, I think voters will rally to our cause in these midterms and in 2028, when we’re going to decide whether the progressive left, with its embrace of socialism, is in the lead on the national stage or whether a popululist right that is a form of progressive politics.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

MIKE PENCE: I mean, this is – when you look at the embrace of isolationism, protectionalism (ph), nationalism of companies, and marginalizing values –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

MIKE PENCE: It’s – it is – it’s more and more an echo of what the left has provided.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

MIKE PENCE: I think as President Reagan said years ago, the Republican Party ought to offer a choice, not an echo.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But isn’t the vice president, J.D. Vance, an echo of all of those things? If President Trump’s not a conservative, is J.D. Vance one?

MIKE PENCE: Well, look, let me say, I lost count of the number of times President Trump corrected me when I said that a particular position was conservative. In fact, he said himself, he’s not a conservative. He’s never really claimed to be.

I’m less clear about the vice president’s views and his philosophy of government. But I’m very clear, as I wrote in my book, that there is this new tension within the Republican Party that will take those pieces of the agenda, the populist right agenda that President Trump has embraced –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

MIKE PENCE: And try and make that the new direction of the Republican Party. I think that would be bad for the Republican Party. I think it would be worse for the country that needs a vigorous, strong conservative party committed to freedom, committed to free markets, committed to traditional values.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Talking about the midterms, you also spent a lot of time writing about character. And you say it matters.

Last week, Texas Republicans voted to make, you know this was coming, Ken Paxton their nominee. He’s the current A.G. He was impeached by the Republican-controlled House. Multiple charges of abuse there, including bribery. His wife, a sitting senator in that state, accused him of committing adultery and is divorcing him on, quote, “biblical grounds.” He was indicted in 2015 on securities fraud charges, though those charges were dropped. And the president chose him over a much more conservative, in your description, John Cornyn.

Does character represent – does the character of Ken Paxton represent your party?

MIKE PENCE: Well, I think, as I write in my book, I think character, integrity, to principle, are enormously important in the life of our movement and the life of our nation.

But, you know, when I look at the Texas primary, when I look at Louisiana, Kentucky, Indiana, as many state senate races, I see it more as a reflection of the grip that President Trump has on Republican primary voters, who are grateful for the way that he has stood up and fought against the radical left.

You look at where the Democratic Party is today. I mean it’s amazing to see, if Republicans, in part, have lost our way with the – with embracing the populist right, Democrats have gone over the beam with embracing socialist candidates, socialist policies. I think Republican voters –

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you would separate yourself from Ken Paxton? He does not represent conservative values?

MIKE PENCE: Republican voters want to push back on that. They respect the president’s views. I just want to make sure people understand that as we sort through all these elections this year, that there’s a new force afoot in the Republican Party. And I think we’ve got to get back to those core values and principles that have always made our country and our party strong and prosperous.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Louisiana’s senator, Bill Cassidy, his offense to President Trump seemed to be that vote to convict him in the second impeachment trial following the attack on the Capitol on January 6th. Does it trouble you that the president is even making primary choices based on grievances having to do from January 6th?

MIKE PENCE: Well, I don’t know precisely what the president’s reasons were for weighing in, in Louisiana the way that he did.

MARGARET BRENNAN: He tweeted pretty explicitly.

MIKE PENCE: I – so, you know, we have – we haven’t chatted in a while. So

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

MIKE PENCE: But I – yes. I – You know, I’ll be honest with you, that I’ll never minimize what happened on January 6th. And I’ll always believe by God’s grace, we did our duty that day to see to the peaceful transfer of power under the Constitution.

It’s one of the reasons why I – this talk of a weaponization fund, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

MIKE PENCE: The idea of creating a fund that could compensate people who assaulted police officers and vandalized the Capitol, that is totally unacceptable. My hope is the administration will drop it and drop the idea entirely and –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think Senate Republicans will make them drop it because it’s hard to stand up to the president, many Republicans find, because of what you just said, the primaries and those midterms?

MIKE PENCE: Well, it is, but – it is, but I’ve been heartened by the number of Republicans and senators who have spoken out against it. Look, the – the people that assaulted police officers on January 6th and vandalized our Capitol should not get one dime of taxpayer money from that fund or anywhere else.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But, I mean, even just the precedent of setting it up, should they exclude January 6th attackers, the idea of a weaponization fund is its own, you know, thing that it bears examining.

But I want to explicitly ask you about something also that happened here.

MIKE PENCE: Well, in Washington, we don’t need slush funds to settle cases.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You view it as a slush fund.

MIKE PENCE: There was a pro-life family that was literally run over by the Biden Department of Justice, that it was just a seven-figure settlement for them. The DOJ can settle these issues where people have had the rights trample on, and ought to do that. I welcomed that settlement greatly.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Last week, at the request of the Department of Justice, a federal appeals court threw out the convictions of four members of far right extremist group the Oath Keepers. That was a militia involved in January 6th.

Do you think that the Trump administration is deliberately whitewashing that day?

MIKE PENCE: Well, I’ve certainly seen evidence of that. Particularly – I was offended on the anniversary of January 6th when the White House put out a timeline that literally blamed Capitol Hill Police for the riot that took place that day.

Look, I’m very confident that – of the judgment of history in the years ahead about our role, about all the Republicans and Democrats who returned that day after Capitol Police secured the Capitol and we all did our duty under the Constitution. But there’s clearly been an effort by some to rewrite that history. But I don’t expect it will work.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Mr. Vice President, thank you very much for sharing your reflections. It’s good to have you here in person, too.

MIKE PENCE: Thank you, Margaret. Appreciate it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: World Food Programme Executive Director Cindy McCain is stepping down from her post Monday. During her three years at the helm of the U.N. agency, there have been two famines. And when we spoke with her late last week from Rome, she told us we’re looking potentially at several more among many other challenges.

(BEGIN VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: There is this emergency response to Ebola in the Congo. That’s a country that’s already struggling, as I understand it, with about 27 million food insecure people.

I know the U.S. State Department is pledging some help here, but what are you hearing about the situation on the ground for emergency responders like yours?

CINDY MCCAIN (Executive Director, World Food Programme): It’s not good. And this is – it’s hitting people in a mass way. And there’s really no way to know right now how many people have been affected by this. We know that it’s a rampage now with it.

So, what we need to do is not only be able to get in, we run logistics, we bring in supplies, we bring in people. And we – and we do much more than that as well just in the region. But this is going to take a real-world effort. This is very deadly.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You say there’s a rampage of Ebola.

CINDY MCCAIN: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean are your able – are you able to keep your workers on the ground?

CINDY MCCAIN: Our workers are on the ground, but my – one of my big projects, and my – I mean the reason – a large reason of what we planned today was taking care of our own people. The duty of care. And that comes into play because right now there’s no adequate facility set up to handle that. And so we’re looking – you know, obviously putting together a task force and a team that will do just that to make sure that we’re protected as well as, of course, anyone that is from WFP.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you have been in this role at a time when there are so many hot spots, so many conflicts. And, of course, the Mideast continues to be a big challenge. I understand that you still do have some operations inside of Iran. As you know, there isn’t a free press on the ground able to document what’s happening. What can you tell us about how civilians there are doing?

CINDY MCCAIN: Things aren’t good. I mean, let’s face it, when you shut the Strait of Hormuz and you’ve got bombings on both sides, all the way up and down, people are going to – going to not only become food insecure, but they’re going to starve. It’s time to end this and make sure that we can open the Strait of Hormuz because it’s affecting everybody. And it will take us months to get back on track when they do open it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Months to get back on track. Why is that? Because the ships with the food are stuck or because of the food prices? Why?

CINDY MCCAIN: Prices, availability, movement. A good example is that we – we do work in Afghanistan. And before what would usually take us three weeks maybe to get the food in from where it comes in from, now takes us almost three months.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.

CINDY MCCAIN: And so – so, in the – but in the meantime, women and children, of which are always the first to be hit, are starving. And so, this is the case with all of them. And when you talk about fertilizer, when you talk about seeds, of course, and other things, they’re being moved around that help stave off hunger, it’s a real problem.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Bigger picture. When you look at the destruction in the Middle East, just within the past few years, how do you describe to an American at home what the longer term impact is?

CINDY MCCAIN: Well, the longer term impact, to put it very bluntly, is not good. You know, we staved off hunger in Gaza when it was finally – the ceasefire held and we were able to get trucks in at scale. We’re back to where we were. We can’t get trucks in at scale. People are – you know, as you know, there’s bombings, there’s all those things and we’re looking at a – not just a serious situation, we’re looking at possibility looking a generation of children.

So, in any of these countries where there’s an issue, Lebanon, Gaza, Syria, Sudan, all the ones that I’ve been to, plus Ukraine, it – access and being able to get in at scale is most important and makes sure – making sure that our humanitarian workers are not targets and that we respect humanitarian law. And that simply isn’t happening right now. It’s very dangerous to be an aid worker right now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you mean losing a generation of children?

CINDY MCCAIN: Well, when you – when you talk about kids that are not – either not getting enough food or what they’re getting is not nutritious enough, and plus there’s no schools open and there’s no, you know, no proper housing, clean water, et cetera, medicine, et cetera, that spells disaster for a child, especially. And so I’m a – obviously, I’m one that has, as a mother first and a grandmother six times over. And so I see it through my mother’s eyes. I – you know, it – you will do anything to feed your children. Anything as a parent. And the fact that that can’t – it’s not happening in so many of these areas now is really alarming and very desperate.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I’ve heard you say feed them now or fight them later. You draw a direct connection to national security and radicalization.

CINDY MCCAIN: Yes. No, you’re absolutely right. We believe that because when folks who are hungry can’t get adequate nutrition or food, they will turn to the bad guys because food’s offered there.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You recently were asked about the conservative movement. And that within the conservative movement, “aid,” you said, “has become a dirty word. And being a humanitarian, useless.”

You’re a lifelong conservative. When you describe things going this direction, that has to be hard to stomach. Why do you think this is happening, and do you think it is temporary?

CINDY MCCAIN: I will say this. Obviously, that was – that was frustration speaking to a great degree.

I believe there are many, many, many good people in the United States that are more than willing to help this cause or help, you know, whatever they see fit to do for all of this. But we need more of it. And we need – we need actionable items from, not just the United States, but other countries around the globe, that will stand up also and help us. We can’t do this alone. And we’re hoping, as you know, the United States is our largest donor and we’re very proud of that, but we need everybody involved in this.

MARGARET BRENNAN: American, though, has changed its policy towards aid. The Trump administration uses that phrase, trade not aid, arguing they’re going to be more efficient and more effective with the support they provide in the form of foreign assistance.

When you look at the places you operate, do you think there has been an impact from the dismantling of USAID?

CINDY MCCAIN: I do. I really – I do. AID was an intimate part of all of these things. And, of course, we relied on them – on them to a degree as well.

I wish we still had AID, but it was a choice of this administration. And so, we have to work with that.

I do – I am hoping, though, that eventually we can put back some of the soft power aspects that we were able to do as well. As you know, that’s a very important part of at least U.S. aid. But again, I’m not criticizing anybody in the administration, I’m simply saying we need help.

(END VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Our full interview with Ambassador McCain is on our YouTube channel and our website and on “FACE THE NATION’S” podcast platform.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: The Kennedy Center will soon once again be the Kennedy Center. On Friday, a federal judge ordered President Trump’s name to be removed in the next two weeks, saying, quote, “Congress gave the Kennedy Center its name and only Congress can change it.” The judge also ruled that the Kennedy Center’s board, led by President Trump’s hand-picked trustees, cannot move forward with its plan to close the facility in July for a multiyear renovation.

President Trump expressed his frustration at the decision in a social media post and said he had “canceled involvement with the failing and unsafe to be in Kennedy Center.”

It’s just the latest setback for the president’s effort to reimagine some of Washington’s historic landmarks. His renovation of the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool and his demolition of the White House East Wing to build a ballroom are also facing legal challenges.

We’ll be right back.