2026-05-10T19:00:18-0400 / https://www.cbsnews.com/news/louisiana-gov-on-supreme-court-decision-and-suspending-house-primary-elections-60-minutes-transcript/
过去一周，两党竞相绘制新的国会选区地图，州议会大厦内爆发了混乱与抗议。这本应是一个晦涩难懂的程序，如今却演变成一场前所未有的政治混战。
此次博弈的关键在于11月中期选举的国会控制权。双方以微弱优势差距，竞相重新划定选区边界，希望能让众议院格局向己方倾斜。
火上浇油的是，11天前最高法院作出一项具有里程碑意义的裁决，认定路易斯安那州的国会选区地图违宪。法院指出，立法者在绘制边界时过度依赖种族因素。我们就此展开报道：路易斯安那州的共和党州长及其政党已着手制定新的选区划分方案，而我们遇到的许多黑人选民担心，他们的选区将从地图上被抹去。
市政厅的牧师：我就是不明白，为什么没人能拦住这趟列车。你们看到了所有的错误。你们看到——这——这是种族主义。你们都清楚。
上周周一，什里夫波特西区的精神堡垒——加利利浸信会教堂座无虚席。对许多人来说，吉姆·克劳时代的记忆依然深刻。
选民们排着队，逐一询问他们所在国会选区的命运。他们的民主党众议员克利奥·菲尔兹并没有多少答案。
众议员克利奥·菲尔兹：有时候，你遭遇挫折是为了更好地准备。我是说，别低估投票的力量。而这正是他们试图夺走的东西。
菲尔兹众议员一生大部分时间都在为路易斯安那州民众服务。他于1992年首次当选众议院议员，曾落选后又在永无止境的重划选区斗争中获胜。如今，他可能再次面临落选。
塞西莉亚·维加：你认为如果重新绘制地图，这个席位就不属于你了？
众议员克利奥·菲尔兹：我觉得这极不可能。
塞西莉亚·维加：你说过这不是关于你个人、你的工作、你所占据的席位。
众议员克利奥·菲尔兹：我只是暂居这个席位，这也是人们会混淆的一点。当设立一个投票权席位时，它并不是保证黑人能当选。不，它不能保证黑人得到任何东西。它只是给了黑人一个赢得选举的机会。这也是《投票权法案》得以通过的原因。
众议员克利奥·菲尔兹 接受《60分钟》采访
1965年《投票权法案》旨在保护少数族裔的投票权。路易斯安那州的黑人居民比例约为30%，是全国比例最高的州之一，但在白人占多数的选区，从未有黑人政客当选过国会议员。
最近的最高法院裁决几乎摧毁了这项具有里程碑意义的法案，但有人认为该法案已经过时。
塞西莉亚·维加：近期有一些保守派非裔美国人公开表态，称赞最高法院的这项裁决，并称这证明了真正的种族进步。
众议员克利奥·菲尔兹：哦，国家确实有进步，你知道的。但是——但是——但我国南部地区的进步程度，还没到可以废除《投票权法案》的地步。你——你让那些人来这里参选并当选试试。
第六选区从巴吞鲁日延伸至什里夫波特，全长超过200英里。在口头辩论中，首席大法官约翰·罗伯茨将其称为“一条蛇……从州的一侧蜿蜒到另一侧，沿途吸纳黑人人口”。
这起诉讼由一群自称“非裔美国人以外”的选民提起。他们依据第十四修正案的平等保护条款起诉路易斯安那州，该条款要求政府在法律面前人人平等。
法院在裁决中称，第六选区的地图是违宪的种族划界分赃。
以开国元勋埃尔布里奇·格里命名的“杰里曼德”（选区划分），是指重新划定政治投票边界以让执政党获益的行为，这完全合法。埃尔布里奇·格里曾创建过一个形似蝾螈的选区，“杰里曼德”一词也由此而来。路易斯安那州的“蛇形选区”，在弗吉尼亚州是“龙虾形选区”，在伊利诺伊州则是“耳罩形选区”。
众议员克利奥·菲尔兹：没错，它看起来确实像一条蛇。
菲尔兹众议员承认，华盛顿的黑人议员人数已经达到了曾经看似不可能的水平。本届国会的黑人议员人数创下历史纪录，达到63人。
塞西莉亚·维加：这难道不是进步吗？
众议员克利奥·菲尔兹：是的，这——这是进步。但这不是路易斯安那州的进步。这个州和其他一些州的人，就是不会投票给黑人担任任何公职。你告诉我要达到某个标准高度，那是规则，我可以努力做到。要求达到某个速度，如果那是规则，我可以去练习，我能做到。但如果你告诉我，要当选国会议员必须是白人，那我对此无能为力。我需要政府的帮助。
州长杰夫·兰德里：在美国，我们享有平等的权利。没有人能享有额外的权利。
上周二，我们前往巴吞鲁日，在州长官邸会见了杰夫·兰德里州长。
作为特朗普总统的亲密盟友，他主导着路易斯安那州的政坛。这位性格鲜明的保守派卡津人，在2023年当选州长之前，曾担任该州司法部长。
州长杰夫·兰德里：你不能一边说我们生来平等，一边说各州必须在法律面前人人平等，另一边却允许一项法律根据种族对人们进行分类。
最高法院作出裁决后，兰德里州长宣布进入紧急状态，并在投票即将开始时突然暂停了国会众议院初选，下令改期举行，这让选民们不知所措。
塞西莉亚·维加：你宣布进入紧急状态？具体的紧急情况是什么？
州长杰夫·兰德里：我们国家的最高法院表示，现有的地图违宪，所以我们没有可供选民投票的有效地图。
州长杰夫·兰德里 接受《60分钟》采访
塞西莉亚·维加：这个国家在内战、两次世界大战期间都举行过选举，选举都顺利进行了。
州长杰夫·兰德里：我们会举行选举，我们确实会在选举日举行选举。
塞西莉亚·维加：但投票已经在进行了。就在我们此刻采访的时候，已经有超过4.5万张选票被退回。这些选票会怎么处理？
州长杰夫·兰德里：哦，这些选票会被作废，——这些选民将在11月再次投票。
塞西莉亚·维加：你说起来好像这没什么大不了的。
州长杰夫·兰德里：嗯，这，这没什么大不了的，这不是我的错。如果有人有不满，那就去告美国最高法院。
重划选区的法律纠纷已经让路易斯安那州焦头烂额，联邦法院多次迫使立法者重新绘制地图。
州长杰夫·兰德里：我们的选民已经受够了。我的意思是，路易斯安那州难道不该得到明确的结果吗？
塞西莉亚·维加：你希望最终的结果是什么样的？
州长杰夫·兰德里：我希望路易斯安那州最终能摆脱数十年的诉讼困扰。
塞西莉亚·维加：如果路易斯安那州在国会没有非裔代表，你会担心吗？
州长杰夫·兰德里：这是州议会将要做出的决定，但我不认为我们必须划定一个确保少数族裔代表权的选区。
重划选区通常在每十年之初使用人口普查数据进行。但去年夏天，特朗普总统敦促德克萨斯州共和党人重新绘制地图，希望在中期选举前增加五个席位。加利福尼亚州民主党州长加文·纽森随即推出了自己的重划选区计划，有望为该州的民主党增加五个蓝营席位。
就连曾公开反对选区划分的前总统奥巴马，如今也在敦促民主党反击，尽可能多地夺取国会席位。
这场政治针锋相对已经演变成一场横跨全美的选区划分军备竞赛，而在路易斯安那州和弗吉尼亚州的法院作出有利于共和党人的裁决后，共和党人越来越自信。
过去一周，他们重划选区的努力引发了田纳西州和阿拉巴马州州议会大厦的抗议活动。
斯蒂芬·弗拉戴克：如今，绘制地图的人没有任何法律义务，必须以任何方式保护少数族裔的政治权力。
研究最高法院的乔治敦大学法学教授斯蒂芬·弗拉戴克预测，选区划分将导致国会更加两极分化，由代表两党极端立场的议员主导。
斯蒂芬·弗拉戴克 接受《60分钟》采访
斯蒂芬·弗拉戴克：过去，按照宪法规定，每十年各州都会说：“哦，我们需要重新绘制地图，因为我们掌握了更多关于民众的数据。”现在变成了，“只要对我们的党派政治有利，我们就重新绘制地图。”
塞西莉亚·维加：现在最大的不同是不是特朗普总统在任？
州长杰夫·兰德里：哦，不。不。事实上，在我看来，总统——他——他已经——这——他在这个问题上无关紧要。
塞西莉亚·维加：他一直在对你的做法大加赞赏。
州长杰夫·兰德里：嗯，我确信总统希望众议院继续由共和党掌控。
塞西莉亚·维加：我必须直截了当地问你，总统有没有要求你重新绘制地图，以帮助他在中期选举中获胜？
州长杰夫·兰德里：总统没有要求我重新绘制地图。
重划选区的工作落到了路易斯安那州州议会的共和党超级多数派肩上，他们已经在利用最高法院的裁决加紧重划地图。
塞西莉亚·维加：阿利托大法官在其意见中表示，如今体制性种族主义已经减少。
州长杰夫·兰德里：嗯，我同意这一点。
州长杰夫·兰德里：我的意思是，想想看。巴拉克·奥巴马曾两次当选美国总统。我们已经有多位少数族裔当选官员。我们看到黑人共和党候选人的数量有所增加。我的意思是，我们真的要揪着过去不放，继续传播那个失败的叙事吗？
塞西莉亚·维加：什么是失败的叙事？
州长杰夫·兰德里：嗯，那个失败的叙事就是，路易斯安那州的人都是种族主义者。我们——我们基本上不会选举黑人担任公职。我的意思是，我不同意这种说法。
但自重建时期以来，路易斯安那州就没有黑人候选人当选过州长或司法部长等全州性公职。对许多人来说，兰德里州长的话毫无说服力。蒂莫西·亨特牧师、琳达·斯科特和唐尼·萨顿都在什里夫波特生活了一辈子，他们担心未来可能会重蹈覆辙。
蒂莫西·亨特牧师：现实是，归根结底，这会削弱黑人选票的影响力。这就是全部目的。这个共和党国会一心想让美国再次回到吉姆·克劳时代。再也没有制衡机制了。所有原本旨在防止这种选区划分的保护措施都被摧毁了。所以没人能拦住这趟列车。
塞西莉亚·维加：你能在这个选区中将政治和种族分开吗？
唐尼·萨顿：不，不能。在所有这些南方州都不行。
琳达·斯科特：我们已经取得了长足进步，但在种族问题上，在他们摆在我们面前的这些阴谋诡计面前，并没有进步。这真是一种耻辱，但我们必须继续前进。我们必须这样做。有太多人为我们争取这些权利付出了艰辛和生命的代价。
塞西莉亚·维加：我认为该州的许多非裔选民可能会说，他们在投票箱前需要这种保护。
州长杰夫·兰德里：我的意思是，我们可以回到马丁·路德·金的时代，对吧？根据一个人的品格而非肤色来评判他。
塞西莉亚·维加：路易斯安那州的黑人选民告诉我，他们觉得，一个和你外貌相同但没有经历过你们经历的人，不会像有过相同经历的人那样好地解决他们的关切。
州长杰夫·兰德里：嗯，一个在以黑人为主的小镇长大的乡下小子，怎么就没经历过那些事情呢？
塞西莉亚·维加：但我确实认为很多人会说，那些经历未必是相同的。
州长杰夫·兰德里：嗯，你在说，“我不应该仅仅因为一个人是黑人就评判他。”我同意这一点。但反过来，我不也不应该仅仅因为我是白人、西班牙裔或印第安人就被评判吗？我的意思是，经过所有这些不同的案件，经过所有对过去罪恶的纠正——当然没有人否认这一点——但我们仍然试图在种族问题上找到一丝歧视的痕迹。
塞西莉亚·维加：我想很多人会说，你不必刻意去寻找。它就在那里。
州长杰夫·兰德里：我会说，你会发现——那种歧视存在于人们的心中，而非法律条文中。
制作：格雷厄姆·梅西克、迈克尔·卡齐斯、阿耶莎·西迪基。副制片人：凯蒂·克布斯塔特、亚历克斯·奥尔蒂斯、基特·拉姆戈帕尔。广播助理：马科斯·巴利亚尔、艾琳·杜沙尔梅。新闻助理：帕洛玛·维吉尔。剪辑：马修·莱夫、迈克·莱文。助理编辑：艾莎·克雷斯波。
Louisiana’s governor on the Supreme Court decision and his suspending of House primary elections
2026-05-10T19:00:18-0400 / https://www.cbsnews.com/news/louisiana-gov-on-supreme-court-decision-and-suspending-house-primary-elections-60-minutes-transcript/
This past week, chaos and protests broke out in statehouses as Republicans and Democrats race to draw new congressional maps. What is usually an arcane process has become an unprecedented political free-for-all.
At stake is control of Congress in November’s midterm elections. With a razor thin margin, both parties are rushing to draw new lines, hoping to tilt the House of Representatives in their favor.
Adding fuel to the fire: a landmark Supreme Court decision 11 days ago found a congressional map in Louisiana was unconstitutional. The court said legislators relied too heavily on race to draw the lines. And that’s where we went. Louisiana’s Republican governor and his party are already moving to carve out new districts and many Black voters we met fear their district will be wiped off the map.
Town hall pastor: I just don’t understand why there is nobody able to stop this train. You see all the wrong. You see– it’s– it’s racist. You know it.
This past Monday, it was a packed house at the Galilee Baptist church, the spiritual anchor to the west side of Shreveport, where for many, the memories of Jim Crow run deep.
One by one, the constituents lined up with questions about the fate of their congressional district. Their Democratic congressman, Cleo Fields, didn’t have many answers.
Rep. Cleo Fields: Sometimes you get a setback to be set up. I mean, don’t underestimate that power of the vote. That’s what they are tryin’ to take away.
Congressman Fields has served the people of Louisiana for most of his life. First elected to the House of Representatives in 1992, he lost, then won again in never ending redistricting battles. Now, he could be facing another loss.
Cecilia Vega: You believe this will not be your seat when and if this map is redrawn.
Rep. Cleo Fields: I think it’s highly unlikely.
Cecilia Vega: You have said this is not about you, your job, the seat that you hold personally.
Rep. Cleo Fields: I’m just occupying the seat, and that’s one of the things people get confused with, when there’s a voting rights seat created it guarantees a Black an election. No. It doesn’t guarantee a Black anything. It just gives a Black an opportunity to win an election. And that’s why they even passed the Voting Rights Act.
Rep. Cleo Fields 60 Minutes
The 1965 Voting Rights Act was created to protect minority voting power. In Louisiana, which has one of the highest percentages of Black residents in the country – about 30 percent – there has never been a Black politician elected to Congress in a district where Whites are in the majority.
The recent Supreme Court ruling virtually gutted the landmark legislation, but some say it’s time has passed.
Cecilia Vega: There are conservative African Americans, who’ve spoken out in recent days and they have praised this court’s ruling and they say that there’s proof of real racial progress.
Rep. Cleo Fields: Oh, there is progress in the nation, you know. But– but– but there is not progress in the southern part of our country to the extent that you should do away with the Voting Rights Act. You– you tell those same folk to come here and run for office and get elected.
The 6th District stretches more than 200 miles from Baton Rouge to Shreveport. During oral arguments, Chief Justice John Roberts called it, quote, “a snake that… runs from one side of the state angling up to the other, picking up Black populations as it goes along.”
The case was brought by a group describing themselves as “non-African American” voters. They sued Louisiana under the 14th Amendment’s Equal Protection clause, which says the government must treat everyone equally under the law.
In its ruling, the court called the 6th District map an unconstitutional racial gerrymander.
Named after founding father Elbridge Gerry, gerrymandering is the process of redrawing political voting lines to benefit the party in power and it’s perfectly legal. Elbridge Gerry created a district resembling a salamander. Thus, “jerry- mander.”
A snake in Louisiana, was a lobster in Virginia and earmuffs in Illinois.
Rep. Cleo Fields: Yeah, it absolutely looks like a snake.
Congressman Cleo Fields acknowledges Black representation in Washington has grown in ways that once seemed impossible. This Congress has more Black members than at any point in history, 63.
Cecilia Vega: Is that not progress?
Rep. Cleo Fields: Yeah, it’s–it’s progress. But it’s not progress for Louisiana. There are people who in this state and others just will not vote for a Black person for anything. You tell me I have to jump a certain height, that’s the rule, I can work to do that. Run a certain speed, if that’s the rule, let me work at it, I can do that. But if you tell me in order to be elected to Congress you have to be White, there’s nothing I can do about that. I need help from my government.
Gov. Jeff Landry: In the United States, we get equal rights. No one gets extra rights.
This past Tuesday, we went to Baton Rouge and met Gov. Jeff Landry at the governor’s mansion.
A close ally of President Trump, he dominates Louisiana politics. The colorful, conservative, Cajun was the state’s attorney general before winning the top job in 2023.
Gov. Jeff Landry: You cannot say that we are all created equal and that, that states must treat everyone equal under the law and then allow a law to sort people based upon race.
Following the Supreme Court decision, Gov. Landry declared a state of emergency and abruptly suspended congressional house primaries right as voting was starting, ordering a do-over at a future date, leaving voters dazed and confused.
Cecilia Vega: You declared a state of emergency? What exactly is the emergency?
Gov. Jeff Landry: We’ve got the highest court in the land says the map that you have is unconstitutional, so we don’t have a map under which our voters can vote on.
Gov. Jeff Landry 60 Minutes
Cecilia Vega: This country has held elections during the Civil War, during two world wars, elections still went on.
Gov. Jeff Landry: We’re gonna have an election and we’re actually gonna have an election on Election Day.
Cecilia Vega: But voting was already happening. As we sit here right now, more than 45,000 ballots have been returned. What happens to those?
Gov. Jeff Landry: Oh, those ballots are discarded and– and those voters will vote again in November.
Cecilia Vega: You say that like it’s not a big deal.
Gov. Jeff Landry: Well, it’s, it’s not a big, it’s not my fault. If, if anybody has a grievance, take it to the United States Supreme Court.
Legal challenges over redistricting have consumed Louisiana, with federal courts repeatedly forcing lawmakers to redraw maps.
Gov. Jeff Landry: Our voters are tired of it. I mean, does not Louisiana deserve some clarity?
Cecilia Vega: How do you want to see this look?
Gov. Jeff Landry: I want Louisiana to be finally unshackled from the decades of litigation.
Cecilia Vega: Would it concern you if there were no African American representatives from Louisiana in Congress?
Gov. Jeff Landry: That’s a decision that the legislature’s gonna make, but I don’t believe that if, that we have to go and draw a district that guarantees us a minority representation.
Redistricting usually happens at the beginning of each decade using Census data. But last summer, President Trump pushed Texas Republicans to redraw maps in hopes of gaining five seats ahead of the midterms. California’s Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom responded by pushing a redistricting plan of his own that could give democrats in his state five additional blue seats.
Even former President Obama, who has publicly opposed gerrymandering in the past, is now pushing Democrats to fight back and pick up as many congressional seats as they can.
The political tit-for-tat has turned into a coast-to-coast gerrymandering arms race and Republicans are feeling increasingly confident following court rulings in their favor in Louisiana and Virginia.
This past week, their efforts to redraw maps led to protests at the statehouse in Tennessee and Alabama.
Stephen Vladeck: Whoever draws the maps now has no legal requirement that the map be drawn in any way to protect the political power of minority groups.
Stephen Vladeck, a Georgetown Law professor who studies the Supreme Court, predicts gerrymandering will lead to an even more polarized Congress dominated by lawmakers representing the extremes of both parties.
Stephen Vladeck 60 Minutes
Stephen Vladeck: Instead of, you know, once every ten years per the Constitution, states saying, “Oh, we gotta redraw our maps ’cause we have more data about who our people are,” now it’s, “Let’s redraw our maps whenever it’s to our partisan political advantage to do so.”
Cecilia Vega: Is the biggest difference now President Trump’s in office?
Gov. Jeff Landry: Oh, no. No. In fact, to me the president is– has– has no– it’s– he’s irrelevant in this issue right now.
Cecilia Vega: He’s been heaping praise on you for this.
Gov. Jeff Landry: Well, I’m sure that the president would like to see the House of Representatives stay in Republican control.
Cecilia Vega: I do have to ask you point blank, has the president asked you to redraw maps in order to help him in the midterms?
Gov. Jeff Landry: The president has not asked me to redraw the maps.
That job falls to the Republican super majority in Louisiana’s state legislature, which is already hard at work redrawing the maps, capitalizing on the Supreme Court’s ruling.
Cecilia Vega: Justice Alito suggested in his opinion that there’s less institutional racism today.
Gov. Jeff Landry: Well, I would agree with that.
Gov. Jeff Landry: I mean, think about it. Barack Obama was elected twice as the United States president. We’ve had a number of minorities elected. We’ve seen a rise of Republican candidates who are Black get elected. I mean, are we really tryin’ to drug up the past only to continue a failed narrative?
Cecilia Vega: What’s the failed narrative?
Gov. Jeff Landry: Well, the failed narrative is that actually that people in Louisiana are racist. That we– that basically we won’t elect Black people. I mean, I disagree with that.
But no Black candidate in Louisiana has been elected to a statewide office, such as governor or attorney general, since reconstruction. For many, Gov. Landry’s words fall flat. Pastor Timothy Hunter, Linda Scott, and Donnie Sutton have spent their lives in Shreveport and fear the future could soon resemble the past.
Pastor Timothy Hunter: The reality is, at the end of the day, it’s gonna dilute the Black vote. That’s the whole purpose. This Republican Congress is all about making America Jim Crow again. There’s no more checks and balances. Everything that was there to guard against this type of gerrymandering is destroyed. So there’s nobody to stop the train.
Cecilia Vega: Can you separate politics from race in this district?
Donnie Sutton: No, you can’t. Not in all of these Southern states.
Linda Scott: We’ve come a long ways, but not with this when it comes to race and not with the schemes that they’re putting up before us. It’s just a disgrace but we must keep pressing forward. We have to. Too many people have suffered and died for us to have these rights.
Cecilia Vega: I think a lot of African American voters in this state might say they need that protection when it comes to the ballot box.
Gov. Jeff Landry: I mean, we’d go back to Martin Luther King, right? Judge a person based upon the content of their character rather than the color of their skin.
Cecilia Vega: Black voters in Louisiana have told me that they feel like it’s true someone who looks like you who has not lived their experience does not address their concerns as well as someone who has lived their experience.
Gov. Jeff Landry: Well, how is it that a little country boy who grew up in a town that was primarily Black, not lived through those experiences?
Cecilia Vega: But I do think a lot of folks might say those experiences are not necessarily the same.
Gov. Jeff Landry: Well, you’re saying, “I should not judge a person just because the person is Black.” And I agree with that. But isn’t it the opposite that I shouldn’t be judged just because I’m White, or Hispanic or Indian. I mean here we are, after all of the different cases, after all of the rectification of the sins of the past, which certainly no one has denied and yet we’re still trying to find some sliver of discrimination in race.
Cecilia Vega: I think a lotta people would say you don’t have to try to find it. It’s there.
Gov. Jeff Landry: I would say that you find– that– that it would reside in people’s hearts, not in their laws.
Produced by Graham Messick, Michael Karzis and Ayesha Siddiqi. Associate producers: Katie Kerbstat, Alex Ortiz, Kit Ramgopal Broadcast associates: Marcos Caballero and Erin DuCharme. News associate: Paloma Vigil. Edited by Matthew Lev and Mike Levine. Assistant editor, Aisha Crespo.
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