2026-01-25T12:03:00-0500 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻
更新时间：2026年1月25日 / 美国东部时间下午12:40 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻
以下是路易斯安那州共和党众议员、众议院多数党领袖史蒂夫·斯卡利斯于2026年1月25日在《面对国家》节目中接受玛格丽特·布伦南采访的完整实录。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：我们现在转向众议院多数党领袖史蒂夫·斯卡利斯，他将从新奥尔良为我们带来报道。早上好，斯卡利斯先生。
众议院多数党领袖史蒂夫·斯卡利斯：早上好，玛格丽特。
玛格丽特·布伦南：我知道，除了担任国会领袖外，您还拥有亲身经历政治暴力的独特经历。您深知煽动性言论的危险性。过去24小时内，我们听到了大量愤怒的言论，您的路易斯安那州同僚、参议员比尔·卡西迪表示，明尼阿波利斯发生的事件不仅令人极其不安，而且美国移民海关执法局（ICE）和国土安全部（DHS）的可信度岌岌可危。他呼吁进行联邦和州联合调查。您会支持他的呼吁吗？
斯卡利斯领袖：嗯，我不会质疑ICE的可信度。他们正在从事一项极其艰巨的工作。我们所有人都对明尼阿波利斯发生的事情感到痛心。而这类事件已经发生过不止一次了。我的意思是，我谈论的不仅仅是ICE的问题。明尼阿波利斯多年前就出现了地方领导失当的问题，导致城市秩序混乱，似乎其他城市很少出现这种情况。ICE在许多城市开展工作，而只有明尼阿波利斯出现了这类事件——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——但我们查看新奥尔良的联邦应对措施时，发现那里的联邦探员数量只是明尼阿波利斯的一小部分。近3000人的规模对于明尼阿波利斯这样的城市来说相当庞大。
斯卡利斯领袖：这是因为新奥尔良等城市没有出现抵抗现象。您知道，在明尼阿波利斯，我刚刚听到警察局长提到，他四次表示自己人手严重不足。我们要记住，明尼阿波利斯市削减了警察预算。这不是局长的错，而是民主党地方领导人的责任。但同时，当他们削减警察预算时，局长就会面临人手不足的问题。因此，他做出了不协助ICE的决定——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——他当时是在处理联邦事务。根据明尼苏达州的数据，今年至今，枪击受害者减少76%，凶杀案减少67%，入室盗窃减少39%，性犯罪和抢劫案减少，机动车盗窃案上升。他谈到了目前应对联邦探员的紧张状况。
斯卡利斯领袖：但请记住，这些探员在明尼阿波利斯已经逮捕了数千名暴力犯罪者。这也是犯罪率下降的原因之一，而且这一趋势在全国范围内都能看到。ICE——再强调一次，任何时候发生不好的事情，我们都会感到惋惜，我也希望这类事件不会发生。但我们确实需要缓和言辞，同时也要记住，ICE为何在这些城市开展工作？他们是在执行联邦法律。法律规定，非法居留且实施暴力犯罪的人必须被驱逐。总统已经明确表示，事实上，他在选举中获胜就是为了打击社区中的犯罪分子。仅在过去一年，ICE就逮捕了41.6万名犯罪分子，这有助于提升社区安全。
玛格丽特·布伦南：有趣的是，您提到了政治层面的问题，因为毫无疑问，总统是在移民执法的竞选纲领中获胜的，当时获得了大量支持。但我们最新的民调显示，超过一半的美国人认为ICE让社区变得更不安全，近三分之二的美国人表示不喜欢总统的驱逐项目政策。显然，公众对这项政策的执行方式并不支持。您认为是否需要重新评估？
斯卡利斯领袖：如果您在民调中问人们：“您希望社区中有非法滞留的暴力犯罪分子吗？”答案会是什么？我可以告诉您，绝大多数人会说，“请把这些暴力犯罪分子驱逐出去。”事实上，在许多没有实施庇护城市政策的城市，我们已经看到了这种情况，而且在这些地方，人们不会走上街头违法干扰执法——这是重罪。
玛格丽特·布伦南：您一直是第二修正案的支持者。当诺姆州长说“我不认为有和平抗议者会带着枪支和弹药，而不是标语”时，您认为美国人在抗议时有权携带武器吗？
斯卡利斯领袖：首先，我是路易斯安那州允许隐蔽携带许可证法律的联合提案人。该法律在路易斯安那州运行良好。我不太清楚明尼苏达州的州法律，但在路易斯安那州以及大多数州，在实施其他犯罪或干扰执法时携带枪支是不被允许的——干扰执法是重罪。不幸的是，我们在许多城市都看到了这种情况。您甚至可以听到警察局长O’Hara在昨天的采访中说，明尼阿波利斯枪击事件后的抗议活动是非法的。是的，他确实称这些抗议活动是非法集会，很多人都在这样做，并且他们向ICE探员投掷物品，这些物品可能会伤害到ICE探员——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——他当时说的不是受害者——
斯卡利斯领袖：——所以，让我们冷静下来。顺便说一句，明尼苏达州的领导人正在不断升级言论。您看到州长瓦尔兹称他们是盖世太保，说他们正在暴力伤害民众。
玛格丽特·布伦南：我需要暂停广告时间，让您继续完成刚才的话题。领袖，请您留在节目中，我们还有更多问题。我们稍后回来。
[广告时段]
玛格丽特·布伦南：欢迎回到《面对国家》节目，我们邀请到了众议院多数党领袖史蒂夫·斯卡利斯。领袖，我们看到了司法部长帕姆·邦迪致明尼苏达州州长瓦尔兹的信件，信中提出如果该州采取多项措施，包括提供食品援助项目和选民登记记录的访问权限，联邦就会结束此次“增兵行动”。此举的目的是什么？意图是什么？
斯卡利斯领袖：嗯，我还没有阅读邦迪和州长之间的信件，但我知道我们正在调查明尼苏达州数十亿美元潜在欺诈案。已经举行了听证会，我们有很多举报人向我们透露，明尼苏达州存在大量挪用纳税人资金的严重问题，这些资金被从学习中心、残疾学生项目等项目中挪用，而州长对此却无动于衷。国会正在——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——但选民登记记录呢？——
斯卡利斯领袖：——正在积极调查这些问题。
玛格丽特·布伦南：作为一名保守派，您是否会对他们要求州政府交出选民登记记录以终止ICE执法感到有些不安？
斯卡利斯领袖：我还没有看到那封信。我知道国会正在努力制定法律，确保全国范围内的选举完整性。像明尼苏达州这样的州在选民登记方面存在问题。我们推动《SAVE法案》，确保非法移民无法投票，并要求出示带照片的身份证明。这些都是我们在联邦层面推动的措施。
玛格丽特·布伦南：非公民不能投票。但我想问问ICE的问题——本周发生的所有事情，包括明尼阿波利斯枪击事件之前的情况。ICE探员声称可以在没有司法令状的情况下进入民宅。ICE曾向无武装的Renee Good开枪，称她是“恐怖分子”。一名FBI探员在被下令不调查开枪警察后辞职。ICE拘留了至少五名儿童，包括五岁的利亚姆·拉莫斯，他被蒙面人员拘留。您觉得这个描述准确吗？您对执法方式感到满意吗？
斯卡利斯领袖：请记住，这个五岁孩子的父亲是非法滞留美国的，并且逃避执法，遗弃了自己的孩子。ICE实际上——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——这个家庭——
斯卡利斯领袖：——保护了孩子——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——该家庭对此有异议。政府认为前任政府的庇护政策存在问题，他们不喜欢用来申请庇护的那个应用程序。
[对话继续]
斯卡利斯领袖：嗯，乔·拜登允许——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——并且他们质疑他是否逃离——
斯卡利斯领袖：——数百万非法移民进入美国，其中包括非常暴力的人，玛格丽特——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——但他们正在追溯性地改变身份的合法性——
斯卡利斯领袖：——来自其他国家监狱的人。特朗普总统在选举中获胜，他的首要任务就是“我要加强边境安全”，而他确实做到了。同时，他也在驱逐暴力分子。41.6万——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——这个父亲没有任何暴力犯罪记录——
斯卡利斯领袖：——名非法移民被ICE逮捕。这些人都是非常危险的罪犯，顺便说一句——
玛格丽特·布伦南：ICE拘留者中有47%面临刑事指控或定罪，这一比例高达47%。
斯卡利斯领袖：ICE刚刚建立了一个网站。不，是国土安全部（DHS）的“最危险分子”名单。您可以在谷歌上搜索“最危险分子DHS”，每个州都会列出被抓获的人员。在您所在的州，您可以看到那些本应被关押的恐怖分子、杀人犯和强奸犯——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——这不适用于这个父亲或五岁的利亚姆——
斯卡利斯领袖：——如果特朗普总统没有加强边境安全，这些人今天就会逍遥法外。
玛格丽特·布伦南：——或者那个与母亲分离的两岁儿童。
斯卡利斯领袖：——那个父亲是非法滞留美国的，并且遗弃了自己的孩子——
玛格丽特·布伦南：他们难道不是最危险的分子吗？
斯卡利斯领袖：——去看看那个网站。它会显示他们逮捕了哪些人——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——他们是最危险的分子吗，先生？
斯卡利斯领袖：41.6万人有暴力犯罪记录。这些人——顺便说一句，美国今天的谋杀率是自1900年以来最低的，部分原因是特朗普总统采取措施将这些暴力分子从街头清除。已有41.6万人被驱逐。您希望他们仍然在街头游荡吗？
玛格丽特·布伦南：不。
斯卡利斯领袖：我认为大多数人都不希望。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的，我也认为——
斯卡利斯领袖：——ICE的工作非常艰难。
玛格丽特·布伦南：——确实如此——
斯卡利斯领袖：而地方执法部门和地方官员，包括市长和州长，不应该鼓励人们上街违法干扰执法。干扰执法是重罪——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——美国公民关心美国公民被枪击的问题，这就是我们提出这些问题的原因——
斯卡利斯领袖：是的，而且其他城市并没有出现这种混乱。
玛格丽特·布伦南：——关于纳税人资助的联邦——
斯卡利斯领袖：——明尼阿波利斯自身存在问题——
玛格丽特·布伦南：好的。
斯卡利斯领袖：——领导失当导致了许多问题，这是不幸的，但确实发生了。我希望这不会发生。地方领导人需要自我反思，缓和言辞。
玛格丽特·布伦南：接下来我要采访下一位嘉宾。斯卡利斯领袖，感谢您今天的时间。
Transcript: Rep. Steve Scalise on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Jan. 25, 2026
2026-01-25T12:03:00-0500 / CBS News
Updated on: January 25, 2026 / 12:40 PM EST / CBS News
The following is the transcript of the interview with House Majority Leader Steve Scalise, a Louisiana Republican, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Jan. 25, 2026.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: And we turn now to House Majority Leader Steve Scalise, who joins us from New Orleans. Good morning to you.
HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER STEVE SCALISE: Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I know in addition to being a leader in Congress, you have this unique experience of having been the victim of political violence yourself. You know how dangerous rhetoric can be. We’ve heard a lot of anger in the past 24 hours, and your fellow Louisianan Senator Bill Cassidy said the events in Minneapolis are not only incredibly disturbing, but the credibility of ICE and DHS are at stake. He called for a joint federal and state investigation. Would you join his call?
LEADER SCALISE: Well, I don’t question the credibility of ICE. They’re doing an incredibly hard job. They’re- look we are all, just feel sorry about what happened in Minneapolis. And this has happened over and over again. I mean, I’m not just talking about regarding ICE. I mean, they’ve got some failed local leadership. They let their city burn down years ago. They have chaos, it seems like all the time in places where other cities don’t. ICE is operating in a lot of cities, Margaret, and you don’t have these kind of incidents in any other city but Minneapolis–
MARGARET BRENNAN: — You don’t- don’t see these numbers either?– .
LEADER SCALISE: — and so, I wish yesterday didn’t happen. What’s that?
MARGARET BRENNAN: You don’t see these numbers either, though, when we looked at, for example, at the federal response in New Orleans. I mean, it’s just a fraction of the number of federal agents. Nearly 3,000 is quite a lot for a city the size of Minneapolis.
LEADER SCALISE: Well, that’s because they didn’t get resistance in cities like New Orleans, where, you know, when you look in Minneapolis, and I just listened to the chief, and you could hear him lamenting four times, I think he said that they’re strapped so thin. And let’s keep in mind, Minneapolis is a city that defunded their police. That’s not the chief’s fault. That’s the failed Democrat leader’s fault. But at the same time, when they defund the police, that leaves the chief stretched thin. And so he- was made a decision not to assist ICE– .
MARGARET BRENNAN: — He was talking- he was talking to- dealing with the federal issues. Because when you look at the Minnesota database, shooting victims down 76%, homicides down 67%, burglary down 39% year-to-date, sex offenses down, robberies down, motor vehicle theft is up. So he was talking about the response- the deal that they have now, that the stretch they have now dealing with the federal agents who are there.
LEADER SCALISE: Well, but remember, these agents have also arrested thousands of violent criminals in Minneapolis. That’s one of the reasons that crime is down, and we’re seeing that across the country. ICE- look again, anytime something bad happens, we all lament that. I wish it didn’t happen. But the rhetoric does need to be toned down, but we also need to remember, why is ICE doing this in cities? They’re enforcing federal law, Margaret. The law says you can’t be here illegally and if you’re committing violent crimes. The President made it clear, in fact, he was elected. President Trump was elected to get rid of criminals in our communities. 416,000 criminals have been arrested by ICE just in the last year. That has helped make our communities safer.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it’s interesting you bring up the politics of this, because undoubtedly, the President was elected on the platform of immigration enforcement. There was a lot of support for it. But our latest poll shows more than half of Americans say ICE is making communities less safe, almost two thirds of Americans say they dislike the President’s approach to his deportation program. There is not public support for the way this policy is being implemented. Do you think there needs to be a reassessment?
LEADER SCALISE: Well, if you asked people in a poll, do you want violent criminals that are here illegally in your community? Yes or no? What do you think the answer is going to be? I will tell you, overwhelmingly, they will say, please get the violent criminals out. In fact, you’re seeing that on the ground in many, many cities where they are cooperating with ICE, where they don’t have sanctuary city policies, and where you don’t see by the way, people going in the streets breaking the law to interfere with law enforcement, which is a felony.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have been a supporter of the Second Amendment. When Secretary Noem says, “I don’t know of any peaceful protester that shows up with a gun and ammo rather than a sign.” Do you believe Americans have the right to bear arms while they’re protesting?
LEADER SCALISE: Well, first of all, I’m a co-sponsor of Louisiana’s law that allows you to have a concealed carry permit. It’s worked very well there. I don’t know the state law in Minnesota. I know in a state like Louisiana, and frankly, most states, you are not allowed to carry a gun while you’re committing another crime and interfering with law enforcement is a felony. It’s something that, unfortunately, we’re seeing in a lot of cities. You even had the police chief yesterday, Chief O’Hara, that you just had on, yesterday said of the protests going on after the shooting, that they were unlawful. Yes, he actually said it was an unlawful assembly, what a lot of people are doing. And they were throwing things at ICE agents. Throwing projectiles that could harm ICE agents–
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Yeah, he wasn’t talking about the victim —
LEADER SCALISE: — So, let’s tone this down. And-and leaders in Minnesota, by the way, have been ratcheting up the rhetoric. I mean, you saw the governor, Governor Walz said they’re Gestapo. He said they’re violently hurting people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m going to have to take this commercial break and let you finish the thought on the other side of it. If you could stay with us, Leader, we have more questions. We’ll be right back.
[COMMERCIAL BREAK]
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to Face the Nation and House Majority Leader Steve Scalise. Leader, we have seen a letter that Attorney General Pam Bondi sent to Governor Walz out in Minnesota, offering to end the federal surge if the state does a number of things, among them giving access to the food assistance programs and voter registration logs. What’s the purpose of that? What’s the intent?
LEADER SCALISE: Well, I haven’t read that letter between Pam Bondi and the governor, but I know that we are investigating tens of billions of dollars of potential fraud coming out of Minnesota. There have been hearings that have already been held. We have a lot of whistle blowers talking to us about major theft of taxpayer money coming out of Minnesota, and these are stealing programs from learning centers, from disabled students, programs that are being stolen, and the Governor did nothing about it. Congress is–
MARGARET BRENNAN:– But voter registration logs?–
LEADER SCALISE: — Investigating that aggressively.
MARGARET BRENNAN: As a conservative, doesn’t that make you a little uncomfortable that they’re demanding the state hand- hand over voter registration logs like, what’s the purpose of that to end ICE enforcement?
LEADER SCALISE: Well, I haven’t seen the letter. I know- I know we’re trying in Congress to deal with putting laws on the books that will make sure that we protect the integrity of the vote nationwide. States like Minnesota have had problems with voter integrity. We want a national standard, the SAVE Act, which makes sure illegals can’t vote, but also making sure you show a picture ID. Those are things we’re pushing for that’s across the board federally.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Non-citizens cannot vote. But I want to ask you ICE- about all the things that have happened this week, even before that shooting in Minnesota. ICE has said his officers can go into homes without judicial warrants. ICE shot unarmed Renee Good, as you know, claimed that she was a domestic terrorist. An FBI agent resigned after she was ordered not to investigate the officer who shot her. ICE detained at least five kids, including five-year-old Liam Ramos, who was taken into custody by men in masks. Does this picture sound right to you? Are you comfortable with how this is being implemented?
LEADER SCALISE: Let’s keep in mind that the five year old’s father was here illegally and was evading law enforcement and abandoned his child. ICE actually–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –the family–
LEADER SCALISE: –protected the child–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –The family disputes that. The administration has a problem with the previous administration’s legal system for asylum, that’s- they don’t like the app he used to file for asylum.
[START CROSSTALK]
LEADER SCALISE: Well, Joe- Joe Biden allowed–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –And they dispute that he fled–.
LEADER SCALISE: –millions of people to come into our country illegally, including very violent people, Margaret–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –But they are retroactively trying to change the legality of the status–
LEADER SCALISE: –people from prisons in other countries. President Trump was elected. The number one issue last year was President Trump saying–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Absolutely–
LEADER SCALISE: — I’m going to secure the border, and he’s doing it. But also he’s removing violent people. 416,000–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –The father did not have a criminal record of any kind of violence–
LEADER SCALISE: –criminals- illegals have been arrested by ICE. 416,000 have been arrested by ICE. These are very bad people, by the way–
MARGARET BRENNAN: 47% of ICE detainees have criminal charges or convictions. 47%.
LEADER SCALISE: –ICE just put up a website. Not ICE, Homeland Security, worst of the worst DHS. Go Google worst of the worst DHS. State by state, they show you all the people that have been picked up in each state. Your state, you can find out horrible people, murderers, rapists, that they picked up that would be on the street–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –That doesn’t apply to the father or five-year-old Liam–
LEADER SCALISE: –today if President Trump wasn’t securing this country.
MARGARET BRENNAN: –or the two year old who was separated from her mother.
LEADER SCALISE: –that father was here illegally and abandoned his child–
MARGARET BRENNAN: They are not the worst of the worst, are they?
LEADER SCALISE: –Go look at the website. It shows you who they picked up–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Are they the worst of the worst, sir?
LEADER SCALISE: 416,000 people with violent criminal records. These are people- and by the way, America today has the lowest murder rate that we’ve had since 1900 in part because of President Trump’s actions to get these violent people off our streets. 416,000 have been removed. Do you want them still out on our streets?
MARGARET BRENNAN: No.
LEADER SCALISE: I don’t think most people do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No and I don’t think–
LEADER SCALISE: –This is a hard job ICE has.
MARGARET BRENNAN: –They do, indeed–
LEADER SCALISE: And local law enforcement, local officials, the mayor, the governor, should not be encouraging people to go out on the streets and break the law by interfering with law enforcement. That’s a felony to interfere with law enforcement–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –And American citizens are concerned about American citizens being shot, and that’s why we are asking the questions–
LEADER SCALISE: Yeah, and we don’t have that chaos in other cities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: -about the tax payer funded federal–
LEADER SCALISE: –Minneapolis has its own problems–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.
LEADER SCALISE: –failed leadership that has led to a lot of this, and it’s unfortunate it happened. I wish it didn’t happen. Their failed leaders need to look in the mirror and tone it down.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I have to go next to our next guest. Leader Scalise, thank you for your time today.
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