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文字实录:参议员马克·华纳做客《与玛格丽特·布伦南面对面》节目,2026年4月12日

2026-04-12T12:02:58-0400 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻

以下是弗吉尼亚州民主党参议员马克·华纳的采访实录,该访谈于2026年4月12日在《与玛格丽特·布伦南面对面》节目中播出。


玛格丽特·布伦南: 接下来我们有请马克·华纳参议员。他是情报委员会的资深民主党议员,我们将在弗吉尼亚州夏洛茨维尔与他连线。早上好,参议员。

参议员马克·华纳: 早上好,玛格丽特。

玛格丽特·布伦南: 我想接着刚才那位大使的话题继续聊,当时他谈到了本国的情报评估与我们的不同。他说,当天内塔尼亚胡总理向特朗普总统提议发动这场如今美国已卷入的战争时,他就在现场。他说这些媒体报道是错误的。根据你对美国情报的了解,情况属实吗?中情局曾称摩萨德的评估荒谬可笑。

参议员华纳: 嗯,玛格丽特,我当时不在那场会议上。但我知道两件事。第一,看过所有情报后,我可以确认伊朗没有针对美国的迫在眉睫的威胁。第二,我相信我的前同事、现任国务卿马可·鲁比奥的公开表态,他说我们知道以色列要袭击伊朗,所以我们觉得必须先下手为强,以防伊朗袭击我们。所以现在局势演变成了这样,但我们——任何美国人都不该忘记,这是总统选择发动的一场战争。如果我们快速审视一下目标,比如政权更迭,坦率地说,伊朗新领导层会更激进;要运出浓缩铀,至少需要1万名士兵守卫掩体周边区域,我们的部队还得进入掩体取出这种极易挥发的铀。乌克兰——抱歉,伊朗可以轰炸那个掩体。我们——我们击落了他们大量弹道导弹,这一点有目共睹。但他们仍有大量导弹可以击落我们的战机。谢天谢地,我们的军队是世界一流的,成功救出了那些飞行员,但伊朗仍留有数千架无人机。还有关于总统将如何应对封锁霍尔木兹海峡的问题。伊朗有数百艘快艇,他们仍可以布设水雷,或者在海峡内向油轮投放炸弹。这怎么可能降低油价呢?

玛格丽特·布伦南: 关于这一点,我想追问一下。你提到的1万名士兵的兵力需求,是官方政府评估的结果吗?这是在作战期间的兵力,还是在伊朗政府允许地面部队进驻的情况下?

参议员华纳: 这一点——这一点早已是人尽皆知的。伊朗政权极其糟糕,这一点我和那位大使看法一致,47年来他们一直如此。但此前的多位总统,包括特朗普总统第一任期内,都没有选择开战,这是有原因的,因为这场战争极其复杂。如今总统表现得好像对伊朗封锁海峡或袭击我们的海湾盟友感到意外,任何看过情报的人都知道这是迟早的事。保护我们士兵的兵力需求,据我看过的所有评估,至少需要1万名士兵守卫周边区域,还要派部队持续多日进入这些掩体。这非常脆弱。伊朗仍有能力轰炸他们自己的掩体。这也是我认为此前从未采取过这类行动的原因。

玛格丽特·布伦南: 所以CNN和《纽约时报》都报道称,中国将在未来几周内向伊朗交付新的防空系统。以色列大使此前也承认,中国曾考虑向伊朗提供帮助。你认为北京目前的支持有多重要?

参议员华纳: 我认为这至关重要,但他们试图隐藏踪迹。中国说这是他们的私营部门所为,但我们都知道,中国不存在真正意义上的私营部门。中国的每家企业都必须首先效忠于共产党。但玛格丽特,我还要指出,特朗普政府解除对俄罗斯石油的制裁,给普京送去了100亿美元。更荒唐的是,他们解除了对海上伊朗石油的制裁,我们实际上资助了伊朗政府140亿美元,让他们可以从中国等地购买武器袭击我们的部队。在我看来,这简直是疯了。

玛格丽特·布伦南: 但你说的是特朗普政府试图通过这些措施压低油价。不过我想问问更宏观的问题。我们的民调显示,民众普遍对政府处理这场战争的方式不满,但从民众的意愿来看,他们总体上是支持的。87%的人认为必须重新开放霍尔木兹海峡,81%的人希望保障伊朗人民的自由,76%的人希望永久终止伊朗的核计划,55%的人希望在结束战争前推翻现任领导人。你是否希望我们完成美国已经开启的这场行动?真的能就此止步吗?

参议员华纳: 玛格丽特,我同意美国民众的所有目标。但当你提出下一个问题:你愿意让你的儿女奔赴中东地面战场,去运出那些浓缩铀吗?我还没见过有人自愿这么做。这场战争爆发前,霍尔木兹海峡是开放的,40天前弗吉尼亚州的油价是2.81美元,现在已经超过4美元了。哪怕总统明天宣布胜利,高油价也会持续数月,而且受影响的不只是汽油,还有天然气。亚洲国家因为油价暴涨,已经开始每周关停一次经济活动。我们从台湾、韩国和亚洲其他国家进口大量商品,所有这些商品的价格都在上涨。

玛格丽特·布伦南: 稍后我们会和国际货币基金组织总裁讨论这个话题。但我想明确一点:这是否意味着,如果总统需要更多资金来推进这场战争,你不会投票支持追加拨款请求?

参议员华纳: 我会审视任何提案。我想确保我们的士兵——他们表现得非常出色——但这位总统本应首先向美国民众和国会说明:我将选择发动战争。以下是我想要达成的目标。也就是政权更迭、浓缩铀、导弹和霍尔木兹海峡这四个目标。我们在开战约10天后才确定了这些目标,而且说实话,目前我们一个都没有达成。

玛格丽特·布伦南: 我想聊聊另一个话题,也就是国会的不作为。美国国土安全部停摆已经进入第58天,这场关于拨款的僵局仍在持续。共和党人正准备通过和解程序,以党派投票的方式为移民海关执法局(ICE)和海关与边境保护局(CBP)提供资金,而民主党此前的对峙要求从未得到落实的政策变革。民主党人到底从这场僵局中得到了什么?

参议员华纳: 嗯,玛格丽特,至少在参议院里,我们得到的是100票全票通过的决议:我们将为国土安全部的所有其他部门提供资金,除了ICE——我们原本以为所有共和党参议员都会支持这项决议,但众议院议长似乎拿不定主意自己想要什么,否决了这个方案。我很高兴总统已经继续支付相关人员的薪水。但如果你问民众同样的民调问题,他们是否希望ICE在城市里四处执法,坦率地说,不仅逮捕非法移民,还逮捕美国人,并且像我们在明尼阿波利斯看到的那样,危及美国人的生命,我认为民众也不希望这样的情况继续发生。

玛格丽特·布伦南: 好的,参议员,我必须中断采访了。非常感谢你做客我们的节目。我们马上回来。

Transcript: Sen. Mark Warner on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” April 12, 2026

2026-04-12T12:02:58-0400 / CBS News

The following is the transcript of an interview with Democratic Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on April 12, 2026.


MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Senator Mark Warner. He’s the top Democrat on the intelligence committee, and he joins us from Charlottesville, Virginia. Good morning to you, Senator.

SEN. MARK WARNER: Good morning, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to pick up where we just left off with the ambassador when he was talking about his country’s intelligence estimates versus ours. He said he was in that room that day when Prime Minister Netanyahu pitched President Trump on this war that the U.S. is now in. He said these press accounts were wrong. In your understanding of U.S. Intelligence. Is it true? The CIA disputed the Mossad’s assessment as farcical.

SEN. WARNER: Well, Margaret, I was not in that meeting. I know two things. One, having seen all the intelligence, there was no imminent threat from Iran against the United States. And two, I take my former colleague, and now Secretary of State Marco Rubio, at his word when he publicly said, well, we knew the Israelis were going to strike Iran, so we felt we needed to go ahead and strike first, since Iran would attack us. So we are where we are, but let’s- no American should forget this is a war of choice, chosen by the president, and if we just quickly look at the goals regime change, frankly, the new leadership is more radical getting the enriched uranium out would require 10,000 troops minimum, guarding a perimeter around a bunker where our troops would have to go in and get this very volatile uranium out. The Ukrainian- I’m sorry, the Iranians could bomb that. We- we’ve taken down a lot of their ballistic missiles whether to be seen. They still have many left shooting down our planes. Thank God our military is world class and got those pilots out, but they literally have thousands of drones left. And this question about what the president is going to do with closing the Strait of Hormuz. The Iranians have hundreds of speed boats where they can still mine the strait or put- put bombs against tankers in closing the strait. How is that going to ever bring down gas prices?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, two things on that. Just to follow up, that 10,000 troop requirement, is that an official government estimate, and is that in the midst of combat, or is that with Iranian government permission to have boots on the ground?

SEN. WARNER: This has been- this has been known for. There is a reason, the Iranian regime is awful. I agree with the ambassador on that they’ve been awful for 47 years. But there was a reason why previous presidents, including President Trump in his first term, didn’t choose to go to war, because this is extraordinarily complicated, the fact that the president acts like he’s surprised the Iranians closed the strait or would attack our Gulf allies. Anybody would have read the intelligence would’ve known that was first. The ability to protect our soldiers would require every estimate, I’ve seen at least 10,000 troops guarding a perimeter, sending troops into these bunkers for days on end. Very vulnerable. The Iranians still have ability to bomb their own bunkers. That is again a reason why I think action like this has not been taken before.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So CNN is reporting that- and the New York Times, that China is set to deliver new air defense systems to Iran within the next few weeks. The Israeli ambassador previously has acknowledged that China was considering helping- helping Iran. How significant would you describe Beijing’s support at this point?

SEN. WARNER: I would describe it as significant, but they try to hide themselves. China says, well, this is their private sector. We all know there is no such thing as a true private sector in China. Every company in China has to have its first loyalty to the Communist Party. But what we have done, let me also point out Margaret, by the Trump administration releasing sanctions on Russian oil. That’s $10 billion to Putin. More crazy is by releasing sanctions on Iranian oil at sea, we have literally funded the Iranian government $14 billion that they’re using to buy from China and elsewhere weapons to attack our troops. That is insanity in my mind.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you’re talking there about President Trump’s efforts to try to, you know, lower oil prices through those measures. I want to ask you, though, on the broader point in our polling, we see broad dissatisfaction with how the administration is handling the war. But as for you know, the aspirations, Americans broadly support them. Eighty seven percent say strait of Hormuz needs to be reopened. Eighty one percent want to ensure freedom for the Iranian people. Seventy six percent want to permanently stop Iran’s nuclear program. Fifty five percent want the current leaders ousted before we end the war. Do you sort of want to see us finish what America has started here? Can you really just hit the brakes?

SEN. WARNER: Margaret, I agree with all of the goals of the American people. But when you take- ask the next question, are you willing to put your sons and daughters in a ground war in the Middle East to get that enriched uranium out? I’ve not found any volunteers on that. The Strait of Hormuz was open before this war started, gas in Virginia was $2.81 40 days ago, it is over $4 now. Even if president declares victory tomorrow, those high gas prices will be with us for months, and it’s natural gas, not just gasoline. Asian countries are shutting down their economies one day a week because the price of oil has skyrocketed so much. We buy a lot of stuff from Taiwan, South Korea and countries around Asia. All those prices are going up.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re going to talk about that with the IMF director later on. But just to put a fine point on it, does this mean you would not vote for a supplemental funding request if the president needs more money to finish what he started?

SEN. WARNER: I’ll take a look at anything. I want to make sure our troops, who’ve done magnificently, but this president should have come to the American people and Congress first and say, I’m going to choose to go to war. Here’s what I want to try to accomplish. Those four goals of regime change, uranium, missiles, and the Strait of Hormuz. We only got those goals about 10 days into the war, and on any honest assessment, I don’t think we’ve accomplished any of them so far.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you on another topic, and that is basically congressional inaction. We’re on day 58 of the shutdown of Homeland Security, in terms of this standoff in regard to funding. Republicans are preparing a plan to fund ice and to fund a CBP on a party line vote through a process known as reconciliation, Democrats had the standoff to demand policy changes that never happened here. What did Democrats actually get out of this?

SEN. WARNER: Well, Margaret, what we got out of it, at least in the Senate, is we got 100-0 vote saying, let’s fund all of the rest of DHS, except for ICE that should have- we assume you had every Republican senator vote for that, and then the Speaker of the House, who can’t seem to decide what he wants, rejected it. I am glad that the president has gone ahead and paying the salaries. But I think if you ask your same poll questions, do the American people want ICE running around cities, frankly, arresting not only undocumented, but Americans, and putting Americans’ lives in jeopardy, as we saw in Minneapolis. I don’t think they want that going on as well.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, Senator, I have a hard break I got to take care. Thank you very much for joining us. We’ll be right back.

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