文字实录：汤姆·霍曼做客《与玛格丽特·布伦南面对全国》节目 2026年3月29日
2026-03-29T12:44:00-0400 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻
以下是2026年3月29日播出的《与玛格丽特·布伦南面对全国》节目中，对特朗普政府边境沙皇汤姆·霍曼的采访实录。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 我们首先连线白宫边境事务专员汤姆·霍曼。今年早些时候，明尼阿波利斯的蕾妮·古德和亚历克斯·普雷蒂遇害后，总统委托他负责监督移民海关执法局的相关工作。早上好，先生。
汤姆·霍曼： 早上好。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 目前国会休会至4月中旬。总统会迫使他们返回华盛顿解决此事吗？
霍曼： 嗯，我希望如此。他们必须——他们必须为国土安全部提供资金。再说一遍，我们讨论的是国土安全部，而当前由于全球局势，我们的威胁态势有所升级，我们必须保障这个国家的安全，这意味着我们必须为海岸警卫队、网络安全与基础设施安全局、特勤局以及国土安全部内所有其他机构的人员提供经费。我知道总统找到了支付运输安全管理局员工薪资的办法，这样我们就能让美国民众顺利通过安检通道，他还提出了派遣移民海关执法局人员前往机场的方案，这已经起到了效果。所以我们只需要为这个部门争取到资金。他们想讨论移民政策，我们可以谈这个，但为什么要拿国土安全部的其他部门当人质来达成目的？我们应该坐下来谈判。过去两周我一直在和国会成员沟通。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 没错，但明确一下，总统并没有要求议员们现在就返回华盛顿，他要等到4月中旬才会采取行动？
霍曼： 听着——美国民众会让国会承担责任。当下数万国土安全部员工无法领取薪资，而他们却在休假。
（对话交叉）
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——没错。但共和党掌控参众两院——
霍曼： ——机场的情况就是如此——
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——这是——总统所在的政党。
（对话交叉结束）
霍曼： 是民主党人阻挠了国土安全部的运作。他们投票否决了国土安全部的拨款，因为他们根本不愿意为国土安全部提供资金，他们想要修改移民海关执法局的政策，让该局在国内的执法效力大打折扣。请记住我们今天讨论的初衷：过去四年边境门户大开，数百万人非法入境美国，其中许多人是公共安全威胁和国家安全威胁，我们正在追捕并逮捕他们。而他们就是不希望移民海关执法局依法执法。
（对话交叉）
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——嗯
霍曼： 过去四年他们已经证明了这一点。
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——那项法案——
霍曼： ——他们没有——让移民海关执法局依法执法。
（对话交叉结束）
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——参议院通过的法案是两党合作的产物，确实为你刚才提到的这些机构提供了大量资金。问题主要集中在移民海关执法局的部分条款上，但——但看起来白宫并没有真正让本党议员统一立场，因为由共和党控制的参议院确实通过了一项拨款法案。但白宫没能说服众议院领导层支持该法案。事实上，众议院议长迈克·约翰逊称这项法案是个笑话。为什么白宫没能让两党——也就是总统所掌控的两党领导层——达成一致？
霍曼： 听着，我去过国会山，参加过这些会议，会见了两党议员。这不是白宫的问题。是民主党人在阻挠国土安全部的运作。
（对话交叉）
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——那你支持参议院通过的共和党法案吗？
霍曼： ——我参加过这些会议，他们——
（对话交叉结束）
霍曼： 我支持国会开放整个政府机构，开放国土安全部，不要因为不喜欢——
（对话交叉）
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——所以不支持。
霍曼： ——移民执法而扣押国土安全部的拨款。
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——你并不支持参议院的那项法案？
霍曼： ——我支持开放整个政府机构，我和总统立场一致。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 好的。嗯——
霍曼： ——我没听清。请再说一遍，女士。
（对话交叉结束）
玛格丽特·布伦南： 所以你并不支持参议院通过的那项法案，我明白你的意思——
霍曼： ——我支持美国总统全面拨款并正常运作国土安全部的立场。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 好的，那么——总统确实指示国土安全部动用其他应急资金来支付这些运输安全管理局官员的薪资，他们最早明天就能收到 paychecks。这是否意味着机场拥堵的情况会得到缓解？他们真的需要返岗工作才能拿到工资吗？
霍曼： 是的，这肯定会有所帮助，因为运输安全管理局的工作人员已经离职了——他们有的去开优步，有的找了其他工作，这样才能养家糊口、支付房租。所以我希望特朗普总统和马克韦恩·马伦部长推出的这项调整措施，能让更多人重返岗位。在那之前，移民海关执法局会继续驻守机场，承担那些不需要高级安检筛查的工作，比如保障机场安全、检查身份证件和旅客出境通道。这样我们就能让更多运输安全管理局安检人员回到X光机岗位，开放更多安检通道。移民海关执法局会留守岗位，协助运输安全管理局人员返岗，希望能开放更多通道，让美国民众顺利通过机场。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 好的。目前已有约500名运输安全管理局人员离职。你预计能重新招聘到他们吗？而且6月份世界杯等大型活动即将举行，在可预见的未来，机场会出现问题吗？
霍曼： 听着，我们会继续在机场保持充足的人手，直到机场能够恢复正常运营。如果返岗的运输安全管理局人员不足，我们就会派遣更多移民海关执法局人员留守。总统已经明确表示，他希望保障机场安全，正如我之前所说，当前威胁态势升级，我们必须确保机场安全。移民海关执法局会协助我们在运输安全管理局的同仁们。只要他们需要，我们就会一直留在那里，直到机场恢复正常运营，确保安全无虞。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 好的。你之前提到过，我们陷入这场政治僵局的原因是两党在相关政策上存在分歧。今年1月，蕾妮·古德和亚历克斯·普雷蒂这两名美国人在移民执法行动中遭枪击身亡。民主党人以此为据，称这正是他们推动改革的原因。我们看到了你签署的那份信函，在信中你非常愿意推动相关改革：你告诉议员们，应该扩大随身摄像头的使用范围，限制在学校和医院等场所的执法活动，并要求执法人员表明身份。既然你愿意做出这些改变，那么将其写入立法又有何不可呢？
（对话交叉）
霍曼： 我们已经做出了这些改变。我们已经做到了。你——
玛格丽特·布伦南： 但为什么不将其写入法律呢？既然你——
（对话交叉结束）
霍曼： 事实上。事实上。他们搁置的那项法案实际上拨款1.2亿美元用于采购更多摄像头。我已经和国会成员沟通过了。他们想——他们想讨论政策和立法方向。听着，如果他们想修改法律，那就去修改。我们只是在执行他们制定的法律。因为我告诉他们——
玛格丽特·布伦南： 嗯，他们确实在尝试制定新法律。
霍曼： 举个例子——不，给我——给我举一个例子。没有任何一名民主党议员能举出一个实例。一个都没有。哪怕是一起移民海关执法局在医院内逮捕非法入境者的案例。我们何时曾在教堂内逮捕过非法入境者？唯一亵渎教堂圣地的是唐·莱蒙和他那个团体。你知道的，我们从未在这些地方实施过逮捕，即便我们没有出台合理的场所执法政策，移民海关执法局的执法人员也具备常识，不会进入学校。我想补充一点：如果你是重大公共安全威胁或国家安全威胁，那么在美国就没有你的藏身之地。但他们无法举出哪怕一起移民海关执法局在他们所谓的“敏感场所”实施逮捕的案例。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 嗯，但2025年1月特朗普政府出台了一项政策调整，称不会再受这些敏感场所执法限制。所以——这是一个转变。
霍曼： 因为——因为——正如我所说，重大公共安全威胁或国家安全威胁在美国没有藏身之地。我们会找到他们，逮捕他们。不过，你无法举出我们实际进入教堂和学校实施逮捕的案例，因为我们一直在尽量等待相关人员离开这些场所。我们会等待。我们会在他们家中或社区内实施逮捕。我们一直在尽量避免进入这些敏感场所，因为我们知道这会引发争议。这就是我一直在向国会山议员们解释的内容。至于随身摄像头，我到明尼阿波利斯做的第一件事就是为当地配备大量随身摄像头，确保所有人都能佩戴。目前，美国海关与边境保护局和移民海关执法局已经制定了全机构范围内配备随身摄像头的计划。但相关采购资金却因为国会的拨款僵局而被搁置。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 好的。其中一项政策调整涉及搜查令，具体要求移民海关执法局在进入住宅实施逮捕前，必须从法官处获得司法搜查令。而当前移民海关执法局的政策是依靠部分行政令。请听听国土安全部部长在确认听证会上的发言。
（开始播放录音）
国土安全部部长马克韦恩·马伦： 我说过，除非嫌疑人闯入营业场所或住宅，否则我们不会在没有司法搜查令的情况下进入民宅或商业场所。
（结束播放录音）
玛格丽特·布伦南： 所以部长同意了这项调整。这项政策何时生效？
霍曼： 我认为我们已经在就此展开讨论。根据《美国法典》第205条，现有法律允许我们进入住宅，且联邦地区法院已经对此做出了支持判决。但我们目前正在就这些问题进行讨论。我每天都会和马克韦恩·马伦部长交谈好几次，我们也在和白宫团队沟通。我们已经在推进所有这些政策，与其说是政策调整，不如说是执行层面的问题。重申一遍，法律就是法律。如果他们不喜欢现行法律中允许我们进入住宅的条款，那就修改法律。但他们还要求仅为逮捕非法入境者就申请司法搜查令。联邦法律中并无此项规定。事实上，国会制定的法律明确指出，可以凭借行政令逮捕非法入境者。这就是联邦 statutes 的规定。不过，他们想要——他们想要为逮捕非法入境者申请司法搜查令。他们要求的是政策调整，这本质上就是修改法律。再说一遍，如果他们不喜欢移民海关执法局的执法方式，那就修改法律。就这么简单。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 嗯，我理解你关于修改法律的论点。很多人也希望这么做，但也存在对现行法律的解读问题。代理移民海关执法局局长托德·莱昂斯在5月份曾发出备忘录称：“国土安全部法律顾问重新解读了现行法律，允许执法人员无需司法搜查令即可实施逮捕。”而我们刚刚听到新任部长表示，若无司法搜查令则不得进入民宅。马伦部长的表述是否符合当前政策？你是否会对特朗普政府5月份的政策做出调整？
霍曼： 我不便代表马伦部长发言，但我认为他的表态很明确，他是在展望未来。不过我做的第一件事就是要求对此次重新解读展开全面的法律审查。我想确切了解情况——我不是律师，但我已经要求司法部对此进行全面审查，我们会等待结果。但我认为马伦部长说到做到。我认为他是在规划未来的政策方向。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 嗯，我们拭目以待结果如何。霍曼先生，非常感谢你今天上午抽出时间接受采访。《直面全国》节目稍后继续。请不要换台。
Transcript: Tom Homan on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” March 29, 2026
2026-03-29T12:44:00-0400 / CBS News
The following is the transcript of the interview with Tom Homan, Trump administration border czar, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on March 29, 2026.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We begin with White House Border Czar Tom Homan, who was tasked by the president to help oversee ICE efforts following the killings of Renee Good and Alex Pretti earlier this year out in Minneapolis. Good morning to you, sir.
TOM HOMAN: Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So Congress is gone until mid-April. Will the president compel them to come back and sort this out?
HOMAN: Well, look, I hope so. I mean, they got to- they got to fund the Department of Homeland Security. Again, we’re talking about the Department of Homeland Security, and we’re in an increased threat posture right now because what’s going on in the world, we’ve got to keep this country safe, which means we got to we got to fund the members of the Coast Guard and, and CISA and- and Secret Service and all these other agencies within the Department of Homeland Security. I know the president found a way to pay TSA workers so we can get the American public through those lines and he also came up with the idea of sending ICE agents to the airport, which has had an impact. So we just need to get the department funded. They want to talk about, you know, immigration policies. We can talk about that. But, why do you got to hold the rest of the DHS hostage to do that? Let’s sit down and talk. I’ve been talking to them for the last two weeks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah, but just to be clear, the president is not forcing lawmakers to come back to Washington now. He’s going to wait until mid-April to do this?
HOMAN: Look- and the American people hold Congress responsible. They’re on vacation right now while tens of thousands of DHS employees aren’t being paid —
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Right. But Republicans control both chambers –
HOMAN: — And that’s what happened at the airports —
MARGARET BRENNAN: — That’s the- this is the president’s party.
(CROSSTALK ENDS)
HOMAN: The Democrats shut, the Democrats shut down DHS. They voted to shut down DHS because they simply won’t fund DHS, because they want to change ICE policies, so ICE is less effective in the interior. Remember why we’re here. We’re here because the last four years of an open border, millions of people are in this country illegally, many public safety threats, national security threats, and we’re out seeking them and arresting them. And they simply don’t like ICE enforcing the law.
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Well
HOMAN: They proved that the last four years.
MARGARET BRENNAN: — The bill that —
HOMAN: — They didn’t – let ICE enforce the law.
(CROSSTALK ENDS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: – The bill that passed the Senate was bipartisan, and it did have a lot of the funding for the agencies you just laid out there. The issue was specific to parts of ICE, but- but it seems like the White House really didn’t force your party to get in line here, because that Republican controlled Senate did pass a funding bill. The White House didn’t get the House of Representatives leadership on board with that. In fact, the Speaker, Mike Johnson, said that bill was a joke. Why wasn’t the White House able to get both parties- both heads of the party, the president controls on the same page?
HOMAN: Look, I’ve been up on the hill. I’ve been in these meetings. I’ve met with lawmakers from both sides. This isn’t a White House issue. This is the Democrats shutting down the Department of Homeland Security.
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: — So did you support the Republican bill in the Senate that passed?
HOMAN: — I’ve been in these meetings, they, they —
(CROSSTALK ENDS)
HOMAN: I support Congress opening up the entire government, the entire DHS, and not holding people in DHS hostage because they don’t like–
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: — So no.
HOMAN: — immigration enforcement.
MARGARET BRENNAN: — You weren’t onboard with the Senate bill?
HOMAN: — I support opening up the entire government, I’m with the president.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Well —
HOMAN: — I missed that. Say that again, ma’am.
(CROSSTALK ENDS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you were not in favor of the bill that passed the Senate, which the Republican leaders I got it–
HOMAN: — I support the president of the United States in getting DHS fully funded and operating.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, so tell me- so the President did direct DHS to use other pots of emergency cash to pay these TSA officers, and they’re supposed to receive paychecks as early as tomorrow. Does that mean that the system is going to become unclogged. Do they actually have to show up to work to get paid?
HOMAN: Yeah, I think it’s certainly going to help, because TSA agents have left the job because they got it, you know, whether it’s driving Ubers or finding other jobs so that- so they can feed their families and pay the rent. So I’m hoping with this- this change that President Trump put in place with- was with Secretary Markwayne Mullen, that more will come back to work. Until then, ICE will remain in airports to take those jobs that to secure the airport and check- check identification and check exit lanes where people enter to exit. To do the jobs that don’t require the enhanced TSA screening so we can get more TSA screeners on the X-ray machines, to open up more lanes, so ice is there to do the job, to get TSA screeners back to the line, and hopefully open more lines, get the American public through the airport.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Well, there’s like, 500 TSA officers who have quit. Do you expect to be able to rehire them, and we have some big events like the World Cup coming up in June. Are we going to have problems at airports for the foreseeable future?
HOMAN: Look, we’re going to continue a nice presence there, and until the airports feel like they’re in- they’re in 100% you know, in a posture where they can do no normal operations. If less TSA agents come back, that means we’ll keep more ICE agents there. The President has been clear. He wants to secure those airports, especially, as I said earlier, in an increased threat posture, we need to secure those airports. ICE is there to help our brothers and sisters in TSA. We’ll be there as long as they need us, until they get back to normal operations and feel like those airports are secure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, so the- you referenced some of this earlier, the reason that we got to this political standoff is because of the differences between Democrats and Republicans on the policy part of this. And back in January, those two Americans, Renee Good and Alex Pretti, were shot during immigration actions. Democrats point to that and say this is why they need to force change. We saw that letter you signed, and in it you were very willing. You told lawmakers to expand the use of body cameras to limit enforcement activities at locations like schools and hospitals and require officers to identify themselves. So if you’re willing to make those changes, what’s the harm in legislating them?
(CROSSTALK)
HOMAN: We already made those changes. We already made those changes. You–
MARGARET BRENNAN: But why not put them in law then? If you’re–
(CROSSTALK ENDS)
HOMAN: Matter of fact. Matter of fact. The bill- the bill- the bill they’re holding up right now actually gives $120 million to buy more cameras. I’ve already talked to them. They want to- they want to, you know, talk about policy and legislative policy. Look, if they want to change the law, change the law. We’re enforcing laws they enacted. Because I told them–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, they are trying to write new law.
HOMAN: Name- No, give me- give me one instance. And there’s not one Democratic lawmaker that can give me one example. One. A single one, where ICE arrested an illegal alien inside of a hospital. When have we ever arrested an illegal alien inside of a church? The only one that violated the sanctuary of a church was Don Lemon and that group. You know, we- we have not made those arrests, and even though we don’t have a sensible location policy, the men and women of ICE have common sense. They don’t go into schools. You know- not- not- I want to make a caveat here. If you’re a significant public safety threat and national security threat, you have no sanctuary. But they- they can’t point to one instance where ICE has made arrests in those what they call sensible locations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, but there was a policy change in January 2025 where the Trump administration said they weren’t going to be, you know, have their hands tied in terms of those sensitive locations. So- so that was a shift.
HOMAN: Because- because- because, as I said, a significant public safety threat or national security threat does not have a sanctuary in this country. We’re going to find them. We’re going to arrest them. However, you can’t point to one instance when we actually went into a church and school because we try very hard to wait for people to leave places. We wait for them. We arrest them in their home or arrest them in their community. We try very hard not to go into those sensitive locations because we know there’s an issue there. So that’s what I’ve been telling the members on the Hill. As far as body cameras, the first thing I did in Minneapolis is bring many body cameras there so everybody had a body camera. There is a plan in place right now for CBP and ICE to go body cameras across the entire agency. However, the money to do that is sitting with the Congress fighting over the shutdown.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Well, one of the policy changes has to do with warrants, requiring specifically ICE to secure a judicial warrant from a judge before entering a home to make an arrest. And that would be a change to the current ICE policy of relying on some administrative warrants. Listen to the DHS secretary during his confirmation hearing.
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HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY MARKWAYNE MULLIN: I said, we will not enter a home or a place of business without a judicial warrant, unless we’re pursuing the individual that runs into a place of business or a residence- or a- or a house.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: So the Secretary agreed to that change. When does that take place?
HOMAN: I- I think we’re already in discussions on that. You know, there are certain sections of law on a Section I-205, where it’s legally- you are illegally able to enter a home and a district court has- has upheld that. But these are discussions we’re having right now. I’m talking- I talk to Secretary Markwayne Mullin every day, several times a day. We’re talking with members of the White House. We’re already working all these policies, not really policy and how we- it’s about execution. Again, the laws are the laws. If they don’t like the law to allow us entry into the home, then change the law. But it’s also they want an arrest warrant to just arrest an illegal alien. There’s nothing in federal law says that. Matter of fact, the law that Congress wrote says you can arrest an illegal alien with an administrative warrant. That’s what the federal statute says. Again, but they want- they want judicial warrants just to arrest an illegal alien. They’re asking for changes in policy. That’s really about changes in the law. Again, if they don’t like what ICE is doing, they can change the law. It’s that simple.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I appreciate your argument about changing the law. There are many who would like to but there’s also the question of interpretation of existing law, and the acting ICE Director, Todd Lyons, had sent a memo in May saying: “DHS counsel reinterpreted existing law to allow for agents to make arrests without a judicial warrant.” When we heard the new secretary say they won’t enter without a judicial warrant- was Secretary Mullin stating the current policy? Are you changing the Trump policy going forward from where it was in May?
HOMAN: I’m not going to speak for Secretary Mullin, but I think it was clear he’s looking at he wasn’t the Secretary made that statement. I think he’s looking forward. But one of the first things I did, I’ve asked for a full legal review on that reinterpretation. I want to know exactly what I’m- not, I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve asked DOJ to do a full review on that, and we’ll see where it comes. But I think Secretary Mullin meant what he said. I think he is looking for the future.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we will see where they land. Mr. Homan, thank you very much for your time this morning. Face the issue. Will be back in a minute. Stay with us.
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