文字实录：众议员乔希·戈特海默与迈克·劳勒做客《与玛格丽特·布伦南面对面》节目，2026年5月24日
2026-05-24T11:51:11-0400 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻
以下是2026年5月24日在《与玛格丽特·布伦南面对面》节目中播出的，对缅因州民主党众议员乔希·戈特海默和纽约州共和党众议员迈克·劳勒的采访实录。
南希·科德斯：接下来我们连线两党议员组合。乔希·戈特海默是新泽西州的民主党众议员，迈克·劳勒是纽约州的共和党众议员。议员们，欢迎来到节目。感谢你们的参与。
众议员 迈克·劳勒：谢谢你们邀请我们。
众议员 乔希·戈特海默：谢谢你们邀请我们。
南希·科德斯：不客气。劳勒议员，我想先从你开始，谈谈美伊之间似乎正在成形的谅解备忘录。我们已经看到一些共和党同僚对此表示反对。南卡罗来纳州参议员林赛·格雷厄姆表示，如果有关这项协议的报道属实，“人们不禁要问这场战争究竟为何爆发”。议员先生，你是否认同他的观点？
众议员 劳勒：不认同，我认为首先重要的是我们要了解所有细节。其次，如果你看看此次军事行动期间发生的事，他们做了什么？他们聚焦于伊朗的弹道导弹项目、无人机能力、海军舰队，并掌控了伊朗的领空。他们成功做到了这一点。伊朗则通过封锁霍尔木兹海峡进行报复，而特朗普总统封锁了该海峡，这对伊朗经济造成了巨大打击，切断了对华石油出口，因此各方都有巨大压力要达成协议，但底线是确保伊朗不拥有核武器，这也是特朗普总统从一开始就明确且始终坚持的目标。所以我认为，在所有人急于抢着发言之前，他们必须先了解拟议协议的条款，特别是关于浓缩铀的部分。
南希·科德斯：这么说，你对目前听到的内容是认可的？
众议员 劳勒：听着，我一直在和政府方面保持沟通。我担任外交事务委员会中东与北非小组委员会主席。我认为总体而言，政府47年来首次做到了迫使这个政权的残余势力坐下来谈判，一场真正的谈判。事实上，十多年前的伊核协议根本算不上谈判，它让伊朗走上了制造核弹的快车道。我们正试图阻止这一点，而总统采取了果断行动来实现这一目标。
南希·科德斯：戈特海默议员，你一直在推动一项战争权力决议的通过，而且离通过越来越近了。如果核问题的谈判被推迟，但霍尔木兹海峡能更快重新开放，这对美国纳税人来说算是一场胜利吗？
众议员 戈特海默：嗯，我认为好消息是，正如迈克所说，我们仍在了解细节。好消息是，如果情况属实，海峡将重新开放，这意味着美国民众的汽油价格会下降，这是好事。但在我看来，坏消息是，目前还不清楚的是，我们最初的目标是浓缩铀问题，确保伊朗在核能力方面……伊朗，我认为其打着“去死吧美国”的旗号，显然是美国的对手，我认为伊朗政权应该被击垮，但其中一部分是要确保我们削弱其核能力，让他们无法拥有核武器。我们还需要大幅削弱他们的弹道军事能力、导弹能力，当然还有无人机活动，以及历史上投入恐怖组织和代理组织的所有资金，比如哈马斯、真主党、巴勒斯坦伊斯兰圣战组织。这些都是悬而未决的问题，目前还不清楚我们在这些方面是否取得了实质性进展。我认为，正如格雷厄姆参议员所言，如果你回顾一下，我们已经投入了巨额资金，并且始终有一个明确的目标，即击垮伊朗，削弱其弹道导弹计划、核计划和恐怖主义计划，但最终我们得到的却是原本不在谈判桌上的东西——重新开放霍尔木兹海峡。在我看来，这最终并没有实现最初设定的目标，所以这是一个大问题。如果我们最终一无所获，只是原地踏步的话。
南希·科德斯：劳勒议员，总统上周五高调访问了你所在的选区。他为你助选，因为你是美国仅剩的三个共和党掌控的选区之一，卡玛拉·哈里斯在2024年的总统选举中赢得了这三个选区。你会如何向你的选民解释这项新的协议，该协议规定今年之前不得审计特朗普家族的相关文件？
众议员 劳勒：嗯，我认为涉及总统与国税局达成的任何协议，从我的角度来看，你知道，回顾拜登政府的所作所为，他们确实将政府武器化， targeting（针对）了总统，我认为他显然因此对政府提出了索赔。从总统的角度来看，我很高兴能欢迎他来到我的选区，就像我之前接待乔·拜登担任总统时一样。乔·拜登三年前也曾来到我的选区，我当时也在场。特朗普总统也来过。我们选区有超过5000人到场，直接听取总统谈论对他们影响最严重的议题，包括我能否兑现解除州和地方税抵扣上限的承诺。总统还宣布将总统自由勋章授予我的一位已故选民——韦尔斯·克劳瑟，那位戴着红头巾拯救了18条生命的“9·11”英雄。我们还听到了戈尔曼一家的讲述，他们的女儿谢里丹·戈尔曼被一名非法移民残忍杀害，这名移民是在乔·拜登的开放边境政策下被允许入境的，之后在芝加哥被捕，又根据芝加哥市灾难性的保释改革和亲犯罪政策被保释释放，最终杀害了这位年仅18岁、本拥有美好人生的女孩，所以听到他们家人的讲述至关重要。所以我很高兴总统能到访这里。
南希·科德斯：我明白了。我确实想谈谈反犹太主义的问题，我们之所以邀请你们两人一同做客，是因为你们正在共同努力应对美国国内反犹太主义抬头的问题。戈特海默议员，我理解议员们关注近期国内发生的一些极其恶劣的反犹事件是有价值的，比如纽约街头一名犹太男子遇刺，华盛顿国会山犹太博物馆遭遇枪击，但国会实际上能为解决这个问题做些什么呢？
众议员 戈特海默：嗯，我们知道自10月7日哈马斯恐怖袭击以来，美国国内的反犹太主义事件激增了70%。迈克和我——我们所在的州都是全国反犹太事件发生率最高的州之一。这完全不可接受。而现在的情况是，在我们的政坛上，两党都存在这种问题，对吧？不管是左翼主播哈桑·皮克，还是右翼的坎迪斯·欧文斯，他们都在全国各地为候选人助选，实际上在宣扬一些最恶劣的反犹言论，比如哈桑·皮克称犹太人为“猪狗”，坎迪斯·欧文斯否认大屠杀。两党都有候选人支持他们，还发表了疯狂的言论，比如本周德克萨斯州的一位民主党候选人说犹太人应该被关进集中营；佛罗里达州的丹·比尔泽利安说我们应该灭绝犹太人。所有这些都绝对不可接受。迈克和我，无论是通过我们在上届国会通过、本届国会再次提出的《反犹太主义意识法案》（该法案旨在定义反犹太主义），还是通过立法谴责皮克和欧文斯，我们都坚信必须挺身而出反对这种行为。迈克一直直言不讳，其他人也是如此，两党的领导层都需要反复明确表明——你不会站在欧文斯和皮克这样的人一边，他们在我们的选区是不受欢迎的，这种言论也绝对不可接受。我认为这一点非常重要。
南希·科德斯：劳勒议员，你为什么认为像戈特海默议员刚才提到的那些边缘候选人，会觉得这种仇恨言论有市场？是不是两党都存在某种“许可结构”？
众议员 劳勒：毫无疑问，反犹太主义得到了跨党派人士的纵容，在我看来，无论属于哪个党派，我们所有人都有责任加以反对。这些候选人跳出来宣扬，他们觉得把世界上的一切弊病都归咎于犹太人是没问题的。显然——你知道，上周我就在酒吧里经历了一件事，兰德·保罗的儿子冲我大喊大叫，因为他以为我是犹太人，但实际上我是爱尔兰、意大利裔天主教徒。不管我是不是犹太人，这种想法——
南希·科德斯：——他已经为此道歉了——
众议员 劳勒：——他最终确实道歉了，但人们觉得做出这种行为是没问题的，这本身就是可耻的。我认为乔希和我提出这项决议，就是为了表明够了，同时也是在告诉两党，我们必须自我整顿。我们不能允许这种情况发生。我们不能支持那些公然、恶毒地宣扬反犹太主义的候选人。要知道，犹太人口仅占美国总人口的2%，但却承受了超过50%的仇恨犯罪。这种情况必须改变。
南希·科德斯：明白了。劳勒议员，戈特海默议员。感谢你们两位做客节目。非常感谢。我们稍后回来。
Transcript: Reps. Josh Gottheimer and Mike Lawler on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” May 24, 2026
2026-05-24T11:51:11-0400 / CBS News
The following is the transcript of the interview with Reps. Josh Gottheimer, Democrat of Maine, and Mike Lawler, Republican of New York, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on May 24, 2026.
NANCY CORDES: We go now to a bipartisan pair of representatives. Josh Gottheimer is a Democrat from New Jersey, and Mike Lawler is a Republican from New York. Congressmen, welcome. Thank you for joining us.
REP. MIKE LAWLER: Thanks for having us.
REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER: Thanks for having us.
NANCY CORDES: Sure. Congressman Lawler, I want to start with you and get your take on this memorandum of understanding that appears to be taking shape between the US and Iran. We’ve already seen some blow back from some of your fellow Republicans. South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham said, if the reports on the deal are accurate, “it makes one wonder why the war started to begin with.” Congressman, do you share his view?
REP. LAWLER: No, and I think it’s important that we actually get all of the details, number one. Number two, if you look at what took place during the kinetic activity, what did they do? They focused on the ballistic missiles program, the drone capabilities, the naval fleet, and seizing control of Iran’s airspace. They were able to do that. Iran retaliated with a blockade in the Strait of Hormuz, and President Trump blockaded that, which caused great harm to Iran’s economy, stopped the flow of oil to China, and so there’s been immense pressure for everybody to reach a deal, but the bottom line is the objective is to ensure that Iran does not possess a nuclear weapon, and that is what President Trump has been clear and consistent on from the very beginning. And so, I think it is imperative, before everybody rushed to, you know, get to the microphone, that they actually understand the terms of the agreement that is being proposed, and specifically with respect to the enriched uranium.
NANCY CORDES: So, you like what you’re hearing?
REP. LAWLER: Look, I’ve been in touch with the administration. I serve as chair of the Middle East and North Africa Subcommittee on the Foreign Affairs Committee. I think on the whole, what the administration has been able to do for the first time in 47 years has forced the remnants of this regime into a negotiation, a real negotiation. The fact is, the JCPOA, from over a decade ago, was not a negotiation, it put Iran on the glide path to a nuclear bomb. We are trying to stop that, and the president took decisive action to do it.
NANCY CORDES: Congressman Gottheimer, you’ve been pushing to get a war powers resolution passed. You’re getting closer to doing it. If the nuclear decisions get pushed off, but the Strait of Hormuz does get reopened more quickly, is that a win for American taxpayers?
REP. GOTTHEIMER: Well, I think the good news here, and as Mike said, we’re still getting details. The good news is the Straits will be back open, if that’s true, and that will mean gas prices will go down for Americans, and that’s good news. The news is bad news, in my opinion, is, and this is where it’s unclear, is the initial objectives had to do with enriched uranium and making sure that from a nuclear capability. Iran, which I think is a clear adversary to the United States under banners of death to America, and I believe the Iranian regime should be crushed, but part of that is making sure that we diminish their nuclear capabilities. So, they can’t make the jump to having a nuclear weapon. That we significantly diminish their ballistic military capabilities, their missile capabilities, and of course their drone activity, and then with all the dollars that have gone historically to terror programs and their proxy programs, Hamas, Hezbollah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Those are all questions that are out there, and it’s unclear if we’ve made any substantial progress there, and I think you know, if the end to point of Senator Graham, if you look back at this and say, okay, we’ve made huge investments, and we’ve had a clear goal along, which is to crush Iran and reduce their ballistic and missile program, their nuclear program, their terror program, and all we got was actually something that was never on the table, a reopening of the Straits of Hormuz. That to me, in the end, will not be reaching the goals initially set forth here, and so that’s-that’s the big question. If we’ve just really gotten nothing and kind of run in place.
NANCY CORDES: Congressman Lawler, the President made a high-profile visit to your district on Friday. He campaigned for you because you represent one of just three Republican-held districts in the US that Kamala Harris won in 2024. How are you explaining to your constituents this new settlement that prevents the IRS from auditing any Trump family documents prior to this year?
REP. LAWLER: Well, I think when it comes to any agreements that the president has made with the IRS, from my vantage point, you know, I think looking back at what the Biden administration did, they certainly weaponized the government and were targeting the president, and I think he obviously had claims that he brought against the government as a result of that. From the standpoint of the president, you know, I was happy to welcome him to my district, just as I did Joe Biden when he was president. Joe Biden came three years ago to my district, and I showed up. President Trump was here. We had over 5,000 people show up in my district to hear directly from the President on the issues most acutely impacting them, including my ability to deliver on lifting the cap on SALT. The President also announced bestowing the Presidential Medal of Freedom on one of my constituents who died on 9/11, Wells Crowther, the man in the red bandana, who saved 18 lives. And we also heard from the Gorman family, their daughter Sheridan Gorman, was brutally murdered by an illegal immigrant who was allowed into this country under Joe Biden’s open border policies, and then arrested in Chicago, released under cashless bail and disastrous pro-criminal policies in the city of Chicago, and murdered this 18 year old girl who had her whole life ahead of her, and so hearing from her family was paramount. So, I was happy to have the president there.
NANCY CORDES: Understood. I do want to get to the issue of antisemitism, because we wanted to have you both on together, because you are working together on ways to address the rise in anti-Semitism in the US. Congressman Gottheimer, I understand the value in lawmakers drawing attention to some of the really vile incidents that we have seen in this country lately, the stabbing of a Jewish man on the streets of New York, the shooting at the Capitol Jewish Museum here in Washington, but what can Congress realistically do about this problem?
REP. GOTTHEIMER: Well, we know since October 7 in the Hamas terrorist attacks, anti-Semitic incidents in the country are up 70%. Mike and I- both our states have some of the top anti- numbers of antisemitic incidents in the entire country. It’s totally unacceptable. And what’s happening now is it’s far too often in our politics on both sides, right? Whether it’s Hasan Piker, who’s a streamer on the left, or Candace Owens on the right, who were campaigning with candidates around the country, actually encouraging some of the most vile anti-Semitic language, like Hassan Piker, who calls Jews pigdogs, Candace Owens, who denies the Holocaust. We’ve got candidates on both sides who’ve embraced them, who’ve made insane comments, like the woman in Texas this past week, a Democratic candidate who said that Jews should be in camps. You’ve got Bilzerian, Dan Bilzerian in Florida, who said we should exterminate Jews. None of this should be acceptable. And- and Mike and I, whether it’s through the Anti-Semitism Awareness Act, which we passed out of the House last Congress on defining anti-Semitism, and introduced again this Congress, or both of us condemning Piker and Owens in legislation, both of us believe deeply that we need to stand up to this. And Mike’s been very outspoken, as have others, and our leadership on both sides needs to make it very clear time and again that- that you don’t stand with these- with people like Owens and Piker, and they’re not welcome in our districts, and none of this language is acceptable either. I think it’s very important.
NANCY CORDES: Congressman Lawler, why do you believe that fringe candidates, like the one that Congressman Gottheimer just mentioned, sense that there is a market for that sort of hate to begin with? Is there some kind of permission structure that has been created in both of your parties?
REP. LAWLER: I don’t think there’s any question that anti-Semitism has been condoned by folks across the political aisle, and from my vantage point, it is something that all of us have a responsibility to push back against, regardless of party. These candidates are coming forward. They feel it is okay to blame Jews for whatever ills there are in the world. Obviously- you know, I experienced just last week Rand Paul’s son screaming at me in a bar because he thought I was Jewish, when in fact I’m Irish, Italian, Catholic, and regardless of whether I was or I wasn’t Jewish, the idea–
NANCY CORDES: — He has apologized for that–
REP. LAWLER: — For him to feel it is okay to engage in that. He did ultimately, but the idea that people feel it’s okay to engage in that type of conduct is shameful. And I think what Josh and I are trying to do in putting this resolution forward is to say enough, and to say to both parties, we have to police our own. We cannot allow this. We cannot support candidates who engage in rank, vile anti-Semitism. You know, the Jewish population is about 2% of the United States, and meanwhile it’s over 50% of the hate crime. Times that are experienced, something’s got to give.
NANCY CORDES: Got it. Congressman Lawler, Congressman Gottheimer. We appreciate both of you coming on. Thank you so much. And we’ll be right back.
