2026-04-12T13:10:00-0400 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻
以下是2026年4月12日播出的《与玛格丽特·布伦南直面国家》节目中，对以色列驻美大使迈克尔·莱特的采访实录。
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玛格丽特·布伦南： 我们现在邀请到了以色列驻美国大使迈克尔·莱特博士。早上好，欢迎再次来到节目。
迈克尔·莱特博士： 早上好，玛格丽特，很高兴来到这里。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 到目前为止，以色列和美国在这场战争中一直步调一致。你们也听到了副总统为外交途径敞开大门，但特朗普总统今早也表示，美国已准备就绪，等待合适时机行动。你是否认为以色列和美国会在这两周停火期间按兵不动？
迈克尔·莱特： 我们必须牢记，总统一直坚持不懈地通过谈判结束这场危机。早在六月战争之前就有谈判，在史诗级打击之前也有谈判，现在谈判仍在进行。我认为，如果我们能在不重启军事行动的情况下，与伊朗这个谋求核武器的专制政权解决危机，对所有人来说都是最好的结果。总统仍在为此努力。但就在刚刚，副总统与卡利巴夫面对面会谈，而此人正是今年1月亲手策划镇压本国民众的直接责任人，我们也亲眼看到了他们在追求核武器一事上是何等顽固执拗。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 你提到谈判仍在进行，那么目前美伊之间是否存在任何层级的接触？
迈克尔·莱特： 你知道，总统给了两周时间，现在才刚到第一周结束，所以还有一周的时间可以继续谈判。我们了解伊朗，了解这个政权。我们不认为他们会轻易改变立场，但给谈判一个机会至关重要。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 万斯曾表示，我们需要看到伊朗做出明确承诺，不寻求核武器，也不拥有能够快速制造核武器的相关工具。你是否认为美国的立场是伊朗必须完全停止铀浓缩，还是说美国仍为伊朗保留用于医疗目的的民用核计划空间？
迈克尔·莱特： 民用核计划并不需要铀浓缩。全球有57个国家拥有民用核计划，但都不进行铀浓缩。
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——但他们想要一点点，你清楚这一点。
迈克尔·莱特： 不，不对。如果他们有了少量浓缩铀，就能以此为基础生产大量浓缩铀，从他们已达到的60%纯度提升到90%的武器级纯度。听着，如果你只是为了医疗目的，根本不需要把浓缩工厂建在地下深处，你也没什么好隐瞒的。这些人满口谎言。那些杀害本国人民的人也会撒谎，我们不该对此感到意外。这一直是他们的行事风格。47年来他们一直在高喊“美国去死，以色列去死”。这就是他们的目标。我们不该——
（对话中断开始）
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——但我们现在就在和这个政权谈判，对吧？
迈克尔·莱特： ——我们同时也在努力，我们正在与他们谈判——
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——就是这帮人。
（对话中断结束）
迈克尔·莱特： ——我们正在与他们谈判，在摧毁他们的海军、空军，削弱他们的领导层之后，希望他们能屈膝投降。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 好吧，总统说战争已经打赢了。而你们总理却说任务尚未完成。具体来说，伊朗的哪些部分仍对以色列构成军事威胁？你是否仍认为这是一场生存危机？
迈克尔·莱特： 从一开始我们就需要警惕三件事。第一，伊朗重新寻求核武器的可能性，这令我们担忧——
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——他们说他们不会——
迈克尔·莱特： 第二，弹道导弹。没错，这些弹道导弹。顺便说一句，他们曾承诺没有能够抵达欧洲的弹道导弹。他们撒谎了。我们已经证实他们确实拥有。
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——你是说袭击迪戈加西亚岛的那次？
迈克尔·莱特： 就是那次袭击迪戈加西亚岛的行动。他们曾声称导弹射程不超过2000公里。但我们现在发现他们的导弹射程已经达到4000公里，距离8000公里仅一步之遥，足以击中芝加哥，或者飞到新泽西州。这就——
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——美国情报部门说需要九年时间。
迈克尔·莱特： ——还有代理势力，嗯，我们的情报部门认为所需时间不到九年。没错，
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——没错。
迈克尔·莱特： 我们的情报部门从一开始就一直准确无误。对吧？很明显，我们当时就说他们正在加速冲刺以获取核武器。威特科夫先生此前从谈判中返回时表示，伊朗方面走进谈判会场时就声称，他们已经拥有可供11枚核弹使用的60%纯度浓缩铀。60%纯度意味着他们只需一到两周就能将其提纯至90%的武器级纯度。玛格丽特，最后一点就是代理势力。没错，除非彻底切断伊朗与其代理势力之间的联系——这些代理势力在中东各地散播死亡、混乱和破坏——否则这场战争就不算结束。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 关于真主党，我想接着这个话题继续聊。但先说完你刚才提到的情报问题。本周《纽约时报》刊发了一篇细节详尽的报道，我相信你也看过了，报道质量非常高。其中详细描述了2月11日的那场会议，以色列总理向特朗普总统提议轰炸伊朗。报道称以色列的计划是暗杀最高领袖，一举瘫痪伊朗威胁邻国的能力，煽动伊朗国内民众起义，进而实现政权更迭，扶持一个世俗领导人上台。显然，所有这些目标都没有实现。不完成这份清单上的任务，你能宣布战争结束吗？
迈克尔·莱特： 首先，所有这些目标都还没有实现。这是一个过程，不是速食面，第一点。第二，我当时就在那场会议的现场。那篇报道的记者并没有在场，显然他们是从第二手、第三手渠道获取的信息。文章里有大量内容根本不符合事实，这是一个刻意编造的叙事，很有意思的叙事，但并不准确。所以我在引用那篇报道时会非常谨慎。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 那么具体来说，他们哪里弄错了？他们说你们的情报机构摩萨德曾认为伊朗政权会非常虚弱，以至于无法封锁霍尔木兹海峡，这个判断是错误的。伊朗不会——
迈克尔·莱特： 不，不，我们并没有那么说过。我们只是提出了需要朝着这个方向努力的可能性，并没有将任何内容作为事实呈现，比如“如果我们这么做，就一定会出现这样的结果”。这不是科学，政治不是科学，军事行动也不是科学。我们只是陈述了我们认为应该采取的行动方案，最终由总统做出决定。所谓总理登门游说、迫使总统参战的说法，完全是为了博眼球的宣传。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 那摩萨德是否曾认为会出现抗议活动推翻现政权，并且库尔德武装会从北部入境？
迈克尔·莱特： 摩萨德确实考虑过这种可能性，就像我们在1月看到的那样，数十万乃至数百万民众起身反抗。现在这种情况再次发生的可能性甚至更大，我们仍然认为这种可能性非常大。我们仍认为在未来几个月内这种情况可能会出现，但这没有绝对的保证——
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——那为什么还要和镇压这些民众的政权谈判呢？
迈克尔·莱特： 嗯，你可以一边谈判——
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——以色列真的支持这次外交行动吗？
迈克尔·莱特： 我们支持总统及其相关努力。没错，从一开始我们就在计划和执行层面保持步调一致，我们也将携手结束这场危机。所以我们完全支持总统在外交和军事方面的所有努力。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 关于代理势力，《耶路撒冷邮报》今日报道称，以色列在黎巴嫩的战争是伊朗重新开放霍尔木兹海峡的代价。以色列对真主党的攻势——我们的观众需要知道，真主党既是黎巴嫩的一个政党，也是伊朗最强大的民兵组织和代理势力。他们让局势变得更加复杂。特朗普政府将于周二在华盛顿举行会谈，你也将与黎巴嫩大使一同参会。真主党并未被纳入此次会谈。在会谈筹备期间，以色列是否会暂停行动，减少对黎巴嫩的空袭？
迈克尔·莱特： 首先我要纠正一点，真主党是一个恐怖组织，
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——没错。
迈克尔·莱特： ——同时也是一个政党。它不是一个拥有恐怖分支的政党，他们本身就是恐怖组织。他们是伊朗的代理势力，
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——没错。
迈克尔·莱特： ——其目标就是摧毁以色列国，
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——没错。
迈克尔·莱特： ——他们还向我们的城镇和村庄发射导弹。
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——没错。
迈克尔·莱特： 我们必须做出回应。现在，我们希望与黎巴嫩进行谈判。以色列和黎巴嫩明天就能和平共处。我相信，我们上周五进行了首次电话会谈，那是一场三方通话，我——
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——你和黎巴嫩大使，
迈克尔·莱特： 黎巴嫩大使、美国驻贝鲁特大使，由国务院官员迈克·尼达姆主持。那场对话非常顺利。我们所有人都达成了共识，只要撇开真主党，只由以色列和黎巴嫩直接谈判和平协议，两到三个月内我们就能达成全面和平协议。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 让我接着问，你说以色列必须做出回应。但针对真主党的袭击做出回应，和我们上周三看到的那种轰炸是两码事。据黎巴嫩卫生部统计，那次空袭造成超过350人死亡，其中三分之一是妇女、儿童和老人。副总统表示以色列已经同意对空袭行动进行自查。而总统则表示他已经与你们总理内塔尼亚胡交谈过，总理承诺会“低调处理”。你能解释一下什么是“低调轰炸”吗？这是指相比周三的行动，减少空袭的频率和规模吗？美以双方到底达成了什么具体共识？
迈克尔·莱特： 减少还是增加空袭频率，这属于军事行动细节，不在周日早间的电视节目中讨论。
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——但总统已经说了——
迈克尔·莱特： ——好吧，我们的共识是，我们将配合总统在海湾地区的行动，我们支持总统的努力。目前，我们正在追捕那些向我们平民发射导弹的人。周三的行动目标是真主党的作战指挥中心。那么他们是怎么做的呢？
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——你不认可黎巴嫩政府公布的伤亡数字？
迈克尔·莱特： 当然不认可。哦，当然了，这就跟哈马斯公布加沙的伤亡数据一样，他们的卫生部——
玛格丽特·布伦南： ——但你正在和黎巴嫩政府谈判
迈克尔·莱特： 没错，没错。但有时候人们总想把我们描绘成，你知道的，专门针对平民。我们的目标是精准打击恐怖主义基础设施，这才是我们的重点。现在玛格丽特，他们的做法是把作战指挥中心、恐怖分子据点设在平民区内。我们已经提醒他们撤离。他们并不总会撤离，但我们已经尽了最大努力。哈马斯在加沙就是这么做的，把基地建在平民中心区域。真主党也是如此。我们前几天还看到德黑兰方面把平民派到桥梁和能源工厂周围，以此作为掩护，这是反人类的罪行。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 好吧，你们周二也有自己的外交活动，我们会持续关注。感谢你今天上午接受我们的采访。
迈克尔·莱特： 谢谢。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 稍后回来。
Transcript: Israeli Ambassador Michael Leiter on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” April 12, 2026
2026-04-12T13:10:00-0400 / CBS News
The following is the transcript of the interview with Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. Michael Leiter that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on April 12, 2026.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: We are joined now by Israel’s ambassador to the United States, Dr. Michael Leiter. Good morning and welcome back to the program.
DR. MICHAEL LEITER: Good morning, Margaret, good to be with you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Israel and the US have been lockstep in this war to date. You heard the vice president sort of leave the door open to diplomacy, but President Trump also said this morning, the US is locked and loaded for an appropriate moment. Is it your understanding that Israel and the US will hold fire until the end of this two week ceasefire?
MICHAEL LEITER: We have to remember that the President has been relentless in pursuing an end to this crisis through talks. That’s the talks preceded the June war, talks preceded epic fury, the talks are going on now, and I think that if we can conclude this crisis with Iran, with this regime, this tyrannical regime, that’s pursuing nuclear weapons without going back into kinetic activity, it would probably be best for everyone. The president continues to pursue that. But right now they saw face to face, the vice president sat opposite this fellow, Qalibaf, who is directly responsible for the murder of his own people just in January, this past January, and just saw how obdurate and obstinate they are in pursuit of nuclear weapons.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When you said the talks are still going on, are there – is there any level of US-Iran contact at this point?
MICHAEL LEITER: Well, you know, the President gave the issue two weeks, and we’re just into the end of the first week, so there is another week left for the potential for continued talks. We, we know the Iranians. We know this regime. We don’t think they’re going anywhere, but it’s important to give it a chance.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Vance said, we need to see Iran give affirmative commitment to not seek a nuclear weapon, or the tools that would enable them to quickly achieve a nuclear weapon. Is your understanding that the US position is zero enrichment or are they still leaving the door open that Iran could have a civil-civilian nuclear program for medical purposes?
MICHAEL LEITER: Civilian nuclear program doesn’t entail enrichment. There are 57 countries with a civilian nuclear program that don’t have enrichment.
MARGARET BRENNAN: — But they want a little bit, you know that.
MICHAEL LEITER: No, no, if they have a little bit then they can have a lot to move from 60% which they had, to 90%. Look, you don’t build these production plants deep underground if you’re doing it for medical purposes, you have nothing to hide. These people lie. We shouldn’t be surprised when people who murder their own also lie. This has been their pursuit. They’ve been chanting for 47 years, death to America, death to Israel. That’s their goal. Let’s not —
(CROSSTALK BEGINS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: — But we’re negotiating with that same regime, right now –
MICHAEL LEITER: — We’re trying at the same time to add we’re negotiating them –
MARGARET BRENNAN: — The very same people.
(CROSSTALK ENDS)
MICHAEL LEITER: — We’re negotiating them, after eliminating their navy, after eliminating their air force, after degrading their leadership. Hopefully they’ll come to their knees and say, we’re surrendering.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the President has said the war is won. Your Prime Minister said the work is not yet complete. Specifically, what part of Iran still poses a military threat to Israel? Do you still consider it an existential threat?
MICHAEL LEITER: Well, there are three things that we have to be concerned with from the beginning. Number one, the pursuit of a nuclear weapon, if they go back to that pursuit that concerns us —
MARGARET BRENNAN: — They say they aren’t —
MICHAEL LEITER: Number two, ballistic missiles. Okay, these ballistic missiles, they promised, by the way, that they don’t have a ballistic missile that could reach Europe. They lied. We saw that they do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: — You’re talking about firing on Diego Garcia?
MICHAEL LEITER: The firing on Diego Garcia. They said it was limited to 2000 kilometers. We see now they’ve got 4000 kilometers. It’s just a sprint to 8000 kilometers and to hit Chicago or 10 to fly to New Jersey. So that has
MARGARET BRENNAN: — US intel says nine years.
MICHAEL LEITER: — and proxy, well, our intel says less than nine years. Okay,
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Yeah.
MICHAEL LEITER: And our Intel has been accurate on this from the very beginning. Okay? Now it was clear we said that they’re in a sprint to achieve nuclear weapons. And Mr. Witkoff came back from the talks beforehand and said they came in, they walked into negotiations, said, we’ve got 60% ready for 11 bombs. 11 bombs at 60% means that you got a week or two until you got 90% and weapon grade. And the last thing Margaret, are the proxies. Okay, this isn’t over until there is a complete de-linkage between Iran and its proxies which have spread death, mayhem and destruction around the Middle East.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to come back to that in regard to Hezbollah. But just to finish what you’re talking about with intelligence, there was this highly detailed New York Times report this past week, I know you read it, extraordinary journalism. That detailed this February 11 meeting where your prime minister pitched President Trump on bombing Iran. It said the Israeli plan was to kill the Ayatollah, done. Cripple Iran’s ability to threaten its neighbors, spur a popular uprising in Iran, and then conduct regime change, leaving in place a secular leader. Obviously, all those goals were not achieved. Can you declare an end to the war without achieving that checklist?
MICHAEL LEITER: First of all, all of those goals have not been achieved, yet. This is a process. This isn’t instant soup, number one. Number two, I was in the room at that meeting. The journalists who wrote that article were not and apparently they received the information second, third hand, there’s an awful lot in that article which simply isn’t true. Which is a narrative that’s being created, interesting narrative, but not accurate. So I’d be very careful about quoting from that particular article.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, specifically, what, what did they get wrong? Because they say your intelligence services, the Mossad argued the Iranian regime would be so weak it could not choke off the Strait of Hormuz. That was wrong. Iran wouldn’t have–
MICHAEL LEITER: No, no we didn’t argue that. We argued the potential that we’ve got to work towards that, nothing was presented as a fact, that if we do this, this will be the outcome. It’s not science, politics is not science, military operations are not science. We presented the case that this is what we think should be done. The president makes a decision. This whole thing about the prime minister coming in and dragging the president into this, it’s – all you know for publicity purposes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did Mossad believe that there would be protests that would overthrow the regime and that Kurdish fighters would enter through the north?
MICHAEL LEITER: The Mossad thought that, as we saw in January, hundreds of thousands and millions of people rise up, the potential for that happening again is even greater now, and we still think it’s very great. We still think we could, that could materialize over the next couple of months but there’s no guarantee –
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Then why negotiate with the same regime that is suppressing those people?
MICHAEL LEITER: Well, you can negotiate
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Is Israel really really supportive of this diplomacy?
MICHAEL LEITER: You can negotiate – we’re supportive of the president and his efforts. Okay, we’ve been in lockstep from the beginning in the planning, in the implementation, and we’re going to end this thing together as well. So we’re completely supportive of the president’s efforts, both diplomatically and militarily.
MARGARET BRENNAN: On the proxies, the Jerusalem Post today is writing that Israel’s war in Lebanon is the price to pay for Iran reopening Hormuz. The Israeli offensive against Hezbollah, and for our viewers, they are a political party in Lebanon and they also are Iran’s strongest militia and proxy force. They’ve complicated things here. The Trump administration is holding talks Tuesday in Washington. You’ll be at the table with the ambassador from Lebanon. Hezbollah is not part of these talks. In that lead up, is Israel going to pause, reduce the strikes on Lebanon?
MICHAEL LEITER: If I can, a point of correction, Hezbollah is a terrorist organization
MARGARET BRENNAN: — It is.
MICHAEL LEITER: — which is also a political party. It’s not a political party which also has a terrorist wing. They are a terrorist organization. They’re a proxy of Iran,
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Yes.
MICHAEL LEITER: — which has an agenda of destroying the state of Israel,
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Yes.
MICHAEL LEITER: — And they fire missiles into our towns and villages
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Yes.
MICHAEL LEITER: And we have to respond. Now, we want to negotiate with Lebanon. Lebanon and Israel can live in peace tomorrow. I believe, you know, we had this initial phone call on Friday. It was a conference call, myself –
MARGARET BRENNAN: — You and the Lebanese ambassador,
MICHAEL LEITER: The Lebanese ambassador, the US Ambassador to Beirut, all moderated by the State Department official Mike Needham. It was a great conversation. And the thing we all agreed upon, that, if there was, if we just put Hezbollah on the side and just Israel and Lebanon negotiate peace. Two months, three months, we’ve got a complete peace agreement.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me just follow up, you said Israel has to respond. That’s different when it comes to responding to a strike from Hezbollah versus the kind of bombing that we saw this past week, particularly on Wednesday. The air strikes killed more than 350 people that day, a third of them, women and children and the elderly according to the Lebanese health ministry. The vice president said Israel had agreed to check itself with these strikes. And the President said he spoke with Bibi, your prime minister, and he said he’s going to low-key it. Can you explain what low key bombing means? Is this a reduced cadence and volume of strikes from Wednesday. What exactly did the US and Israel agree to?
MICHAEL LEITER: Reduce cadence, up cadence. Operational issues aren’t discussed on Sunday morning on television.
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Well the president did
MICHAEL LEITER: — Well, what we, we discussed is that we’re going to be in tandem with the president’s efforts in the gulf, and we support the president’s efforts. Right now, we are pursuing those who are shooting missiles against our civilians, and the operation Wednesday was targeted against operation centers of Hezbollah. Now, what they do?
MARGARET BRENNAN: — You dispute those Lebanese Government figures?
MICHAEL LEITER: Absolutely. Oh, of course, it’s like Hamas releasing figures from Gaza, their health ministry,
MARGARET BRENNAN: — But you’re negotiating with the Lebanese government
MICHAEL LEITER: Absolutely, absolutely. But the, sometimes, there’s this attempt to paint us as, you know, going after civilians. We’re going after in a targeted fashion, the terrorist infrastructure. That’s what we focus on. Now what they do Margaret, is they put their operation centers, their terrorist centers, among civilians. Now we tell them to get out. They don’t always get out, but we do what we can. Hamas does this in Gaza by building their bases within civilian centers. Hezbollah does it, and we saw the other day where Tehran sent their civilians out to the bridges and the – energy plants so they wouldn’t be, this is a crime against humanity.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you have your own diplomacy on Tuesday, we will be watching for that and what happens. Thank you for your time this morning.
MICHAEL LEITER: Thank you
MARGARET BRENNAN: Be right back.
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